The "appeal" of Terry Jones and why it's all messe

[dolfan]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... 0SqZFJy4ow

This article is the one where the ground zero mosque imam says if they don't build it there, we can expect violent Muslim reaction around the world.

So, if you burn the Koran in a podunk church in Florida -- we strike. If you disallow us to build a memorial to our success in toppling your tallest building and killing 3,000 Americans -- we strike.

Islam is hell-bent on taking over the world. That is precisely Terry Jones's point. And, you know what? He's exactly 100% correct that Islam intends to do exactly that. This "religion of peace" aims to rule over this world. Our government is complicit. Meanwhile, guys like Terry Jones believe --- wrongly --- that God has a vision to "restore" America to some make-believe past state where it was a godly nation (never was, never will be, never could be, never can be). In his mind, he's doing God's work. This is the crux of where he's got it wrong.
If he understood correctly that God's kingdom never has or does seek to reign over the order of this world, I think he possesses enough logical powers to conclude that this whole Koran burning thing is in vain. But, that's not where he is.

He is where most of us are. He believes that God has a special place in His heart for the USA, that with the right people with the "right world view" in power, this could be a so-called "Godly nation", and that right now the combination of fear and love for Islam that's sweeping across America is standing between America and God's desires for America. It just isn't so. God is not the least bit interested in America as America. He has no need for America, even an America that meets the ideal that most evangelicals seem to hold as what-America-ought-to-be. He's interested in people following Him in the Way of Jesus, saved, serving, sacrificing and separating from the order of this world and uniting with Him in His kingdom. But, as long as Terry Jones believes that way about America as most Christians do, especially those of us who wear the label "conservative Christian", he is being somewhat consistent with that belief when he burns the Koran. Or, another way of saying it would be that he is living up to his belief about America when he burns the Koran, and in doing so, believes it is God's work.

I suppose my point here in all this is that the government really WANTS the Terry Joneses to do what they do in spite of their hoopla to the contrary. When the President needlessly supports the ground zero mosque project, pitching in on that issue when there was no need for him to do so, in the name of freedom of religion only to condemn Terry Jones who, by all accounts is acting constitutionally in his Koran-burning, and then the imam of that project uses the same argument against moving that mosque (i.e., Muslims will be violent) that Obama, et.al. are using against Jones, common sense tells you that Muslim violence is really NOT the worry of the U.S. Government. The goal of the government seems to be to goad America-first Christians into anti-Muslim expression for the purpose of inciting violence against Christians or, at the very least for now, increasing anti-Christian sentiment. The shame of it all is that such anti-Christian sentiment is not truly anti Christ because Christ is not behind the motivations of the America-first Christians in the first place.

What this is is one side tilting at a windmill and the other side working inside their own smoke-screen. In a word --- confusion. God is not the author of it.

[dolfan]

The heading on that post ended in "messed up". Not "messe". Sorry for exceeding the letter limit!!!

[MacUser]

Digesting this Article quickly..*scratching head*
So violence will erupt if this peaceful Mosque based on healing isn't built?

[MacUser]

Wowy Zowie.... talk about a power packed thread!!!
I wonder if this is true? Did Obama call him and promise him this?

NYC Islamic Center Moving?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_ ... an_burning

Pastor Terry Jones said Thursday that he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

[Rascal]

I agree with you completely. While burning the Koran may not be the "Christian" thing to do, it is the right of the pastor to do so. It amazes me that a church so small that threatens an act on this level can cause such an unrest in Afganistan????? So much, that the President and commander of the troops is asking for assistance??? A Bible burning in NYC would not even make the news. It amazes me that the musliums are even watching CNN enough to notice such an act. I do think that this should again be a wake up call for US citizens that the Musliums do want to take over this country. Just look at England, it has happened there. Are we next? I think so unless something is done to stop the immigration into this country. This influx of musilums is more dangerous than we know. We are asleep at the wheel.

I think that if, and again that is a big if, the musliums want peace like they say and are"loving" they would be sensitive to our wishes that the mosque would be built in another location. They would releive tentions. And as of this evening, the buring of the koran has been canelled in favor of "talks" about the possibility of relocation of the building site. Let us pray that this is accomplished as it is a slap in the face to most Americans.

[Phil Hoover]

it is NOT the right of this deranged "pastor" (and I use that word very, very loosely) to:

1) Endanger the lives of American and allied troops all over the world;

2) Endanger the lives of missionaries who are carrying the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST all over the world;

3) Endanger people in THIS NATION because of his own self-righteous stupidity.


Maybe HE (and those who support him) need to consider the "greater good" for a change.

[RamboPreacher]

a question that those who have studied Islam should have been pondering about the burning issue:

What difference should it make to the NATIONS of Islam that a person or group of people in America (the Republic) should burn some Quran's?

two big points to make:
1. directly contextualized - the Quran's they are going to burn are probably, and most likely English translations. and NOT the "real" (authentic) word of god in Arabic.

2. secondarily and for our consideration: We need to stop thinking like lemming-American's, and assuming that everyone thinks like we do as far as separation of church and state. until only a couple centuries ago, that paradigm wasn't even really a possibility. And is still not really for most of the countries of the world.

Understanding that Islam is as much a nation (think patriotism) as it is a religion (individual church organizations). and similarly a person that is a Muslim may only be born into is, like our President.

a parallel, that most can understand: a Jew is born a Jew from having a mother that is a Jew. That doesn't necessarily make them a religious person following Judaism. but they are a Jew, nonetheless. They may be a (nationality) Jewish Christian, or a Jewish perosn in one of teh sects of Judaism.

A Muslim is a Muslim by being born of a father in Muslim. That person may be a Muslim that follows Islam, or perhaps they may be a professing Christian as a Muslim (POTUS).

[Brian]

it is NOT the right of this deranged "pastor" (and I use that word very, very loosely)

Maybe HE (and those who support him) need to consider the "greater good" for a change.

Phil, for you to turn your back on this pastor and call him "deranged" is an insult to a fellow member of the body of Christ. You can't peer into his heart and see whats there any more than you can see into mine.

I don't support what he was contemplating, I am indifferent to it. I searched Youtube and watched a few folks burning the Qur'an, whatever, big woop.

Saying that his actions would be to blame if Americans were killed is ridiculous. The blame is on the murderous radicals who perpetrate the act! NO MATTER WHAT the provocation!

[Phil Hoover]

A spirit may have been guiding this man, but I seriously doubt his first name was "HOLY"...

And we are never told to NEEDLESSLY endanger the lives of others by provocation.

He wasn't preaching the GOSPEL...he was trying to insult a people group...embarrass this nation, harm our troops, and endanger the lives of others...

I'm glad he finally woke up. He had his 15 hours of fame.

[RamboPreacher]

Reads like you have not only proclaimed him heretical, but also setting the verdict to not-saved for the man.

[Phil Hoover]

Reads like you have not only proclaimed him heretical, but also setting the verdict to not-saved for the man.

I was just saying, UNEQUIVOCALLY, that the HOLY SPIRIT was not directing these deranged actions.

He may very well be a Christian--and I certainly hope that he is....but HIS now-cancelled actions were NOT even remotely CHRISTIAN....

[dolfan]

By way of contrast, this is the way Christians deal with Bibles being burned (it arrived in my email today; you may have gotten it to if you subscribe to Voice of the Martyrs email);

"Somchi" is an outcast in her village in Laos. Even family members have turned against her. And when villagers found a Bible in her home, they proclaimed, "We need to destroy it!" They believed the Bible was causing her mother's illness.

"My villagers still hate me and mock me, like they mocked Jesus on the cross," Somchi told VOM. "It is the world's right to hate us or to love us. But for me, I will follow Jesus."

In restricted nations around the world, Bibles are burned, shredded or confiscated every day. Those opposed to the gospel can destroy Bibles, but they cannot destroy the faith of those like Somchi.

No riots by Christians. No fatwas. No demands for recognition or government-imposed "fairness". Just a simple, "But for me, I will follow Jesus."

[Full Quiver]

Islam is hell-bent on taking over the world. That is precisely Terry Jones's point. And, you know what? He's exactly 100% correct that Islam intends to do exactly that.

Sorry Dolfan but Paul is the resident expert on all things Islam and he says they are peaceful.