Back to the Future. Talks of TC

Phil Hoover · Postby **Phil Hoover** » December 14th, 2009, 11:20 am

what have you been snorting?

It takes more than just "will power" and a " strong opinion."

I can see a lot of the mistakes that were made in the 1980s...I saw them then, and I see them even more clearly now.

And HIRING QUALIFIED FACULTY is a VERY, VERY BIG DEAL.

Remember what Jesus said about 'counting the cost.'

Postby **Pastor Gary** » December 14th, 2009, 11:38 am

Phil Hoover wrote:And HIRING QUALIFIED FACULTY is a VERY, VERY BIG DEAL.

I have no dog in this fight: I never went to TC and have no strong opinion pro or con so far. I'll toss this in - COGOP has an exponentially larger pool of educated leaders/members than it did in the old TC days, and a bunch of them are retired and living within driving distance of Cleveland TN.

There are others who could be secured to come in to teach intensives, short courses and the like.

one love · Postby **one love** » December 14th, 2009, 11:54 am

Phil Hoover wrote:what have you been snorting?

It takes more than just "will power" and a " strong opinion."

I can see a lot of the mistakes that were made in the 1980s...I saw them then, and I see them even more clearly now.

And HIRING QUALIFIED FACULTY is a VERY, VERY BIG DEAL.

Remember what Jesus said about 'counting the cost.'

Snorting? sounds like you have some issues... I never said it was a simplistic issue. I am saying it is veyr arrogant at this point to assume that COGOP does not have enough intelligence to pull this off.

Business and teachers/educators is the core of getting a school started. Yes that is a simplistic view but It is true.
I never said qualified faculty was not important I actualy implied the opposite you are just implying they do not have the ability I am saying they do!!!!

dolfan · Postby **dolfan** » December 14th, 2009, 12:46 pm

I don't know either way. I admit a strong, strong fondness of the idea of a functioning TC. But, since I'm not in COGOP anymore and it would be a primarily COGOP school serving COGOP needs and leadership development, I just can't weigh in with any real authority on the topic. But, this I do know: TC was worth keeping in the first place. We came "" that close to deciding to return in the mid-summer of 1992 after we'd left there in May; "" that close to not pursuing a communications degree and going to law school, only to get a call from James Wallace that it had closed and pretty much cementing our decision to go on ahead and do what we'd decided to do. I loved Tomlinson College then, and while I had my issues like everyone else does, it was worth keeping alive. I don't know that reopening it is a good thing or a bad idea.

oletimer · Postby **oletimer** » December 14th, 2009, 12:51 pm

Phil Hoover Posted:
what have you been snorting?

It takes more than just "will power" and a " strong opinion."

I can see a lot of the mistakes that were made in the 1980s...I saw them then, and I see them even more clearly now.

And HIRING QUALIFIED FACULTY is a VERY, VERY BIG DEAL.

Remember what Jesus said about 'counting the cost.'

Phil I don't know that I know you personally. But I did go to TC and though I didn't get to graduate, I was there for about a year and one half for School and about three years living in Cleveland. I had to support a wife and two kid in school.

Many of the leaders that the COGOP, TCOG, and others can trace their education back to TC even though many went on to other school for their BA and masters.

Back then somebody in HG invested a large amount of money in a market and we lost that money. After that the church had to make some big decision if I'm not mistaken TC lost.

Every thing costs and there will be price to be paid, but the benefites could great for a lot of reasons. I am thankful for my time at TC.

I'm not in the COGOP nnow but do think that to bring back TC would be beneficial to all. No bonehead here.

Phil Hoover · Postby **Phil Hoover** » December 14th, 2009, 1:17 pm

in Cleveland already....LEE UNIVERSITY....

Take full advantage of what this ALREADY-ACCREDITED, fully financed and established UNIVERSITY has to offer.

No need to "re-invent" the wheel.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » December 14th, 2009, 4:15 pm

Phil Hoover wrote:is one of the most BONEHEADED things I've ever heard...

I'm an alum of the now defunct Tomlinson College, and I think it is a TERRIBLE idea....HORRIBLE even.

1) The international church didnn't support the school back then....no reason to believe that a "small denominaton" (in the US at least) would support it now.

2) Accreditation takes a LONG time. A VERY, very long time.

3) Hiring qualified faculty in the various disciplines will be a chore in and of itself. Qualified people will not work for the "pennies" anymore that many were willing to work for back in the day. I know of one particular faculty member that taught full time and worked two other part-time jobs just to support their family. That is a horrible reflection on the denomination..

4) Who would do the recruiting, and and make sure the "college" was actually offering programs that are needed and wanted by the future students?

IT is a BONEHEADED idea.....worse than horrible.

Phil Hoover
Chicago

your wrong! end of discussion!!

Rascal · Postby **Rascal** » December 14th, 2009, 5:42 pm

I agree with Paul. It would take millions of $ to do this right. I also agree with Phil as Lee is everything COGOP could ever want. It is right there and many of our kids have attended/graduated from there. If fact, some of the old TC instructors have taught there and some may still be there. There really is not any difference between COG & COGOP doctrine any more. They essentially are the same as I see it. Why not support Lee with our kids and $?

jdavis · Postby **jdavis** » December 14th, 2009, 7:12 pm

I graduated from TC in 1980. My kids both graduated from Lee. One in 99 and one in 05. Lee is a good school and has many advantages. I was extremely disappointed when the college was closed. Especially since we had no say or input into decision. I have been a COGOP pastor continuously since I graduated. Both of my kids would have probably gotten their first two years there if they had the opportunity.

That being said, I don't know if it is the right thing to do now. I feel very confident that it was the wrong decision to close it but now maybe there is too much water under the bridge. In order to make it successful, I feel that we must tie ordination and higher education together. Require ordained ministry to continue their education to keep their license up to date. Require candidates for ministry to have a basic theological education in order to be ordained(not just read four books and take an open book test.)Utilize the school in a way that it is indespensable to the Church and it will be successful. That's my 2cents.

john

cndlou · Postby **cndlou** » December 15th, 2009, 2:38 am

Okay, I have a question... I have recently returned to school to finish up a degree I should have completed years ago... I have always assumed that TC and Lee etc didn't have all the core curriculum other colleges do... I thought it would be hard to transfer after attending this type school... Am I totally wrong??? (seems like I am)

paul · Postby **paul** » December 15th, 2009, 3:40 am

jdavis said:

I feel that we must tie ordination and higher education together. Require ordained ministry to continue their education to keep their license up to date. Require candidates for ministry to have a basic theological education in order to be ordained(not just read four books and take an open book test.)Utilize the school in a way that it is indespensable to the Church and it will be successful. That's my 2cents.

John, the last 13 years of my life have been spent devoted to reaching and equipping men and women for ministry. I doubt if anyone in this forum has spent as much time, energy and money in this pursuit as I have. The value of education cannot be overemphisied, but neither can it take the place of a true divine calling of God on ones life. Over the years having pioneered many churches, pastored many in and out of cogop, started and help start many independant ministries and by many standards become very successful in ministry; what got me here were some basic things taught to me by uneducated men ( my pastors as a youth) but men who had a true, genuine, heart felt calling of God on their lives. They were more than a preacher, more than miister, they were true Shepherds after the heart of God.

The two, education and ordination do not ensure a great man of God nor do they not ensure a great man of God.

jinjer · Postby **jinjer** » December 15th, 2009, 3:45 am

You are totally wrong Cindy.

I attending TC and graduated and then 1 year at Lee. I transfered everything. UofL and all my others schools accepted all of my credits. I know some have had problems, but I never had a problem. My bible classes were transfered as humanities.

That being said, I think it is a bad idea to reopen TC. There were many things they could have done to make it more successful and viable back when it was open. Reopening it seems to be romanticized and that always costs a lot of money, reaching back for something that really isn't there.

Jinjer

scooter · Postby **scooter** » December 15th, 2009, 4:33 am

We already partner with Lee for the classes we are doing.

My Tomlinson credits transferred.

I think it is encouraging to see that the leadership of the church is not nay saying about our future but rather hoping to invest in it through education.

I doubt that an "on campus presence" means a complete staff and students but rather the beginnings of an educational hub.

The church needs a greater commitment to the future through education. It also needs a clear focus on the processes of how we do educate our people.

I see this as a way to solidify our approach to Christian education as an organization. This should not be left to others if we intend on continuing as a church. However, if we intend to merge with the COG then yes I too would say Lee is sufficient.

darylscook · Postby **darylscook** » December 15th, 2009, 4:55 am

I don't have a problem with us having a college and giving TC a physically location as long as they have a voluntary revenue stream to support it and do not add an additional Tithe (ahem tax) on local churches or ministers to pay for it.

PD

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » December 15th, 2009, 6:25 am

scooter wrote:We already partner with Lee for the classes we are doing.

My Tomlinson credits transferred.

I think it is encouraging to see that the leadership of the church is not nay saying about our future but rather hoping to invest in it through education.

I doubt that an "on campus presence" means a complete staff and students but rather the beginnings of an educational hub.

The church needs a greater commitment to the future through education. It also needs a clear focus on the processes of how we do educate our people.

I see this as a way to solidify our approach to Christian education as an organization. This should not be left to others if we intend on continuing as a church. However, if we intend to merge with the COG then yes I too would say Lee is sufficient.

bingo!!!! The Church of God of Prophecy should be looking to the future. living close to cleveland and knowing some of the people there, i dont hear any talk from those that really matter about merging with anyone. we are a good church and we are doing good things and we should be looking forward to a good future. that means planning for growth. we should not have to depend on other denoms or groups for education or money. I would say to the local level folks on here, if you want Cogop to grow it starts at your church. with the help of God make it grow. We need a school now so we will have one when we reach 5 million members and 10 million members and 30 million members. we need more positive people in Cogop at the local level and people to look up from your small surroundings and realize its not Gods will to stay there. let me make it clear, i dont know that many people in higher positions at IO but the ones i do know have no interest in merging with any one. that sounds a little better.

Jude 2