I have had enough of New Ageish Worship music.

[Gerald Creasy]

You asked for a couple of examples and thats just it, I can't give you any.

Many times I cant even distinguish one tune from the other...do not know if we sang it before or even if we've sang it several times.

Such songs are generally santized of any scripture, refer to God in extremely vague terms (Sometimes referred to as just YOU or the adressee is just assumed), and could easily pass as love songs between man and woman.
The are needy "we want we want we want" songs couched in terms of affection.

I reached my toleration point several months past when the congregation (and I use the term loosely: those amongst the congregation known for emotional display or peppy personalities) sang for ten minutes about rain.

Yes Rain. God send your rain. We need your rain. Gotta have the rain. Ah-ooooo-We need the rain. God send your rain.

Over.

And Over

and over.

I dont know the name of the song but my sarcastic recollection of it probably has more depth to it than the actual song.

I sat. Yes sat and just watched the congregation sing this repetative goofy nonsense over and over and over and over.



HAve you ever read some of the old hymns?
The depth of theology some of them had?
If they got in you and you sang them throughout the day how you were singing you were actually reminding yourself of theological truths??

ohhh but I know how to sing about God sending rain (whatever is meant by that).

[DeWayneTN]

So your preference is Old Age?

[Pastor Gary]

I reached my toleration point several months past when the congregation (and I use the term loosely: those amongst the congregation known for emotional display or peppy personalities) sang for ten minutes about rain.

Yes Rain. God send your rain. We need your rain. Gotta have the rain. Ah-ooooo-We need the rain. God send your rain.

Over.

And Over

and over.

I dont know the name of the song but my sarcastic recollection of it probably has more depth to it than the actual song.

I sat. Yes sat and just watched the congregation sing this repetative goofy nonsense over and over and over and over.



HAve you ever read some of the old hymns?
The depth of theology some of them had?
If they got in you and you sang them throughout the day how you were singing you were actually reminding yourself of theological truths??

ohhh but I know how to sing about God sending rain (whatever is meant by that).

Okay. I understand your concerns, but this is nothing new. I grew up in the 50's and 60's hearing...

"Send down the rain, Lord, send down the rain..." over and over.
How about "Jesus' on the main line, tell Him what you want... call Him up, call Him up, tell Him what you want..."

Same kind of mindless nonsense designed to hype the masses, devoid of theological depth.

I like Chris Tomlin and David Crowder worship songs because for the most part they are NOT just repeated catch-phrases, they have Biblical meaning, and actually engage the worshipper heart AND mind.

[Brian]

Not that I disagree with you Gerald, but does it mean more when the song is rich with Theology? Does it mean less if we are singing about God's rain (I assume that means blessings/spirit/healing/touch/ministering) down from above?
I don't care much for the repetition either but I certainly wouldn't say it is devoid of meaning and the ability to bring one into the presence of God. After all, all one needs to do to come into Gods presence is for them to step into it. Sometimes that takes a mindset that pushes ourselves out of the way.
Sometimes I think that emotionalism gets a bad rap. Emotion isn't bad/sin. God is described as Love, an emotion by my understanding. (not saying that God is an emotion) but He moves on the heart, again, with deep rich heart felt emotion.

Just a thought......

[Gerald Creasy]

So your preference is Old Age?

My preference is songs not written by authors with the theological depth of a sterotypical blonde found in your average blonde joke.

[Gerald Creasy]

Okay. I understand your concerns, but this is nothing new. I grew up in the 50's and 60's hearing...

"Send down the rain, Lord, send down the rain..." over and over.
How about "Jesus' on the main line, tell Him what you want... call Him up, call Him up, tell Him what you want..."

Same kind of mindless nonsense designed to hype the masses, devoid of theological depth.

I like Chris Tomlin and David Crowder worship songs because for the most part they are NOT just repeated catch-phrases, they have Biblical meaning, and actually engage the worshipper heart AND mind.

True. But just because it has been happening for a while does not mean it needs go on unchecked.

Even the "Send down the rain" shallow as it was, had more depth than a song which basicly repeats a need (rain) a plea, and then the need and plea again.

I remember as a kid reading this song and having my mind blown at its depth:

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.
Washed all my sins away, washed all my sins away;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.

Dear dying Lamb, Thy precious blood shall never lose its power
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.
Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more;
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

E’er since, by faith, I saw the stream Thy flowing wounds supply,
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.
And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die;
Redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

WHAT MODERN DAY "worship" song comes close at the depth and beauty??

NONE that my local church has sang (and sang and sang and sang until the old and feeble plop back in their pew).

[Gerald Creasy]

Not that I disagree with you Gerald, but does it mean more when the song is rich with Theology? Does it mean less if we are singing about God's rain (I assume that means blessings/spirit/healing/touch/ministering) down from above?
I don't care much for the repetition either but I certainly wouldn't say it is devoid of meaning and the ability to bring one into the presence of God. After all, all one needs to do to come into Gods presence is for them to step into it. Sometimes that takes a mindset that pushes ourselves out of the way.
Sometimes I think that emotionalism gets a bad rap. Emotion isn't bad/sin. God is described as Love, an emotion by my understanding. (not saying that God is an emotion) but He moves on the heart, again, with deep rich heart felt emotion.

Just a thought......

Thats just it Brian. Why should one have to assume?

I kept thinking when the Rain Episode was going on:

A guy walks in off the street. He has no Christian experience.

What does he hear for five or ten miniutes? These people repeating (if it was any shorter it would be a chant) "We want rain"
I seriously doubt singing about rain with no elaboration would spiritually bless or illuminate.

Theres nothing wrong with emotions: But singing endlessley with maudlin heart rending music just waiting and hope someone will get a little emotional and start crying or sqealing or running to the altar is just plain nuts.

[EagerBeaver]

I agree with a lot of your points Gerald...

My frustration is when the music just plays over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and it seems like the worship is a bit forced. Seen it many times.

Then you have the WAR songs like we've sung in camp before (i.e. "went to the enemy's camp, and I took back what he stole from me") and we'd keep singing them and keep singing them (during altar calls, no less), and to me it lost a lot of its spiritual significance simply because not only did we wear them down but it was almost as if the tone of the music was designed to whip someone into a frenzy.

We were made to worship the Lord, yes, and we were made to do it in spirit and in truth, amen, but at the same time there is a point where we simply need to worship and revere the Lord instead of trying to shoot for borderline transcendentalism.

We don't need an ethereal experience every time we gather! We don't need a forced worship atmosphere either, and that's what I feel happens whenever congregations no matter who it is keep on repeating songs until you feel like you wanna vomick.

[Pastor Gary]

Not to hijack Gerald's thread, but to expand upon it and offer counterpoint; can anyone post examples of contemporary worship songs that are not "Jesus-is-my-boyfriend" songs and have some solid theology?

I'll offer this as a decent example.

"Wholly Yours"
(David Crowder)

I am full of earth
You are heaven’s worth
I am stained with dirt, prone to depravity
You are everything that is bright and clean
The antonym of me
You are divinity
But a certain sign of grace is this
From a broken earth flowers come up
Pushing through the dirt

You are holy, holy, holy
All heaven cries “Holy, holy God”
You are holy, holy, holy
I want to be holy like You are

You are everything that is bright and clean
And You’re covering me with Your majesty
And the truest sign of grace was this
From wounded hands redemption fell down
Liberating man

You are holy, holy, holy
All heaven cries “Holy, holy God”
You are holy, holy, holy
I want to be holy like You are

But the harder I try the more clearly can I feel
The depth of our fall and the weight of it all
And so this might could be the most impossible thing
Your grandness in me making me clean

Glory, hallelujah
Glory, glory, hallelujah
You are holy, holy, holy
All heaven cries “Holy, holy God”
You are holy, holy, holy
I want to be holy, holy

So here I am, all of me
Finally everything
Wholly, wholly, wholly
I am wholly, wholly, wholly
I am wholly, wholly, wholly Yours

I am wholly Yours
I am full of earth and dirt and You

[DeWayneTN]

Just pickin. I really don't have strong feelings. I can and have worshiped to just about everything.

[Brandon Bowers]

I was at Lee from 2000-2003, and the Passion stuff was really big, as well as some of the Vineyard worship.

We called it "Kiss Jesus in the face Music" because it was like the songwriters wanted to be overly intimate with with God or something.. Some of it was just over the top with the romantic-Jesus themes..

[EagerBeaver]

I was at Lee from 2000-2003, and the Passion stuff was really big, as well as some of the Vineyard worship.

We called it "Kiss Jesus in the face Music" because it was like the songwriters wanted to be overly intimate with with God or something.. Some of it was just over the top with the romantic-Jesus themes..

YES! Hillsong United comes to mind. With their elaborate stage and light shows and all, too.

Far be it for me to judge their hearts but the appearance of it is showmanship to me.

[Pastor Gary]

Hillsong United comes to mind. With their elaborate stage and light shows and all, too.

Far be it for me to judge their hearts but the appearance of it is showmanship to me.

Do you consider a "worship/concert" by HUL and the like to be the same as a weekly gathering of the church? I don't. I downplay show-biz and hype in my weekly meetings (Excellence? Sure. Showbiz? Not so much.) but I can go out and enjoy a worship-tainment event with hazers, intelligent lights and set design as a ticketed event/concert... but the two are not the same to me.

[EagerBeaver]

Hillsong United comes to mind. With their elaborate stage and light shows and all, too.

Far be it for me to judge their hearts but the appearance of it is showmanship to me.

Do you consider a "worship/concert" by HUL and the like to be the same as a weekly gathering of the church? I don't. I downplay show-biz and hype in my weekly meetings (Excellence? Sure. Showbiz? Not so much.) but I can go out and enjoy a worship-tainment event with hazers, intelligent lights and set design as a ticketed event/concert... but the two are not the same to me.

Good point and if I really think about it for a second I would agree with you.

[dawgs10]

not that this applies to anyone on this thread but it has been my experience that most people that complain about worship service music just dont like worship service. you can sing what ever and it just dont matter. they made me sing to much or they whipped the crowd into a frenzy or they did not sing hymns of they did not sing worship music. i like what i heard a few weeks ago. if you or your church is still debating worship music or style you are years behind. even decades.