Homosexuality is...
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Pastor Gary
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Homosexuality is...
With the activist push for same-sex marriage and close variants, I thought it might be interesting to know what Jude2 participants believe to be true.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
None other than a choice... a choice to use inherent amoral sexuality in a homosexual manner.
It is NOT genetic.
It is NOT biological.
It is NOT hereditary.
It is a choice, a perversion of human sexuality.
So, of the choices listed, I chose it is completely a free choice.
It is NOT genetic.
It is NOT biological.
It is NOT hereditary.
It is a choice, a perversion of human sexuality.
So, of the choices listed, I chose it is completely a free choice.
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
"I wish a buck was still silver, it was back when the country was strong." -- The Hag
Bro. Christopher
"I wish a buck was still silver, it was back when the country was strong." -- The Hag
A curse.
Something that can be avoided very easily and readily.
Fathers and mothers not being so overbearing on their children so that they don't end up so concerned for themselves but actually learn to care for others.
And...if and when a person becomes the center of their own universe and their pleasures become the only thing they seek...they will generally speaking become homosexual...and find neither fulfillment or pleasure.
This curse is rather harsh and complete in that I have not heard of any ever leaving this lifestyle without returning to it eventually.
It is because this holy planet we live upon has decided that because of your self centeredness you need to be removed from the gene pool and not allow you to reproduce yourself genetically.
Then there is the whole mental illness thing...because of lead pipes and lead contaminated drinking water Rome went homosexual...but then again...a person being "all they could be" physically and mentally and enjoying everything to the fullest and beyond was their goal in life.
Something that can be avoided very easily and readily.
Fathers and mothers not being so overbearing on their children so that they don't end up so concerned for themselves but actually learn to care for others.
And...if and when a person becomes the center of their own universe and their pleasures become the only thing they seek...they will generally speaking become homosexual...and find neither fulfillment or pleasure.
This curse is rather harsh and complete in that I have not heard of any ever leaving this lifestyle without returning to it eventually.
It is because this holy planet we live upon has decided that because of your self centeredness you need to be removed from the gene pool and not allow you to reproduce yourself genetically.
Then there is the whole mental illness thing...because of lead pipes and lead contaminated drinking water Rome went homosexual...but then again...a person being "all they could be" physically and mentally and enjoying everything to the fullest and beyond was their goal in life.
I want to die like Grandpa, quietly and in his sleep; not like the passengers in his car, they were all panicking and screaming.
I don't know whether it is biological or not. Everyone is born with an inclination to sin. For some, that is anger, for others it might be pride issues, for others it might be greed, for others it might be homosexuality. The fact that there may be some genetic or inherent tendencies, however, makes it no less sinful.
Those with homosexual leanings have the responsibility to resist acting upon those inclinations just as surely as someone who is prone to outbursts of anger. Free choice? No, we don't get to choose which sins we struggle with as a rule. If I have a problem with pride, I didn't just decide one day to have that problem and choose to be inclined to that particular sin.
Free choice has nothing to do with the inclination. We are still responsible under God for all sinful inclination--and we all have them. The sin we are all born into isn't "free choice". We're born that way.
That said however, we do choose whether to act upon the sinful inclinations that we all have. A person who has inclinations to outbursts of anger doesn't have to have an outburst. The inclination isn't a sin. The acting upon it is sin. Likewise with homosexual. It doesn't really matter if they are born with it or somehow develop it. What matters is what they do with it. I think it is entirely possible and probable that persons with homosexual tendencies can be saved. They must not practice homosexual activity. EVER. But neither should someone who is saved who has tendencies toward pride or drunkeness or even heterosexual promiscuity.
The Christian life is one of fighting. It is a fight of faith, a fight to keep believing God, a fight to resist the remaining sin nature and vestiges of corruption that we all have. When one becomes a Christian, all traces of inclination to sin do NOT go away. They are there until we reach heaven. Some may go away; some may not. What matters is what I do with them.
I guess that is why I do not understand the anxiety over whether homosexuality is biological or not. From a spiritual point of view, it doesn't matter one bit. A propensity to alcoholism can be biological, but that doesn't make it any less sinful, nor does it make the person any less responsible. It is simply a sinful tendency, and we all have our own besetting sins that we struggle with.
So, if it is biological (and I don't know whether it is or not) we could even say: A tendency to homosexuality is biological, it isn't free choice, they can't help it, and they are responsible and they must resist acting upon it. They can be saved and still stuggle with the inclination, and they may struggle their entire life with it.
Romans 1 does indicate that homosexuality is judgment--I wonder what that says about it being 'free choice'? Interesting to think about.
My .02 for what it's worth.
Those with homosexual leanings have the responsibility to resist acting upon those inclinations just as surely as someone who is prone to outbursts of anger. Free choice? No, we don't get to choose which sins we struggle with as a rule. If I have a problem with pride, I didn't just decide one day to have that problem and choose to be inclined to that particular sin.
Free choice has nothing to do with the inclination. We are still responsible under God for all sinful inclination--and we all have them. The sin we are all born into isn't "free choice". We're born that way.
That said however, we do choose whether to act upon the sinful inclinations that we all have. A person who has inclinations to outbursts of anger doesn't have to have an outburst. The inclination isn't a sin. The acting upon it is sin. Likewise with homosexual. It doesn't really matter if they are born with it or somehow develop it. What matters is what they do with it. I think it is entirely possible and probable that persons with homosexual tendencies can be saved. They must not practice homosexual activity. EVER. But neither should someone who is saved who has tendencies toward pride or drunkeness or even heterosexual promiscuity.
The Christian life is one of fighting. It is a fight of faith, a fight to keep believing God, a fight to resist the remaining sin nature and vestiges of corruption that we all have. When one becomes a Christian, all traces of inclination to sin do NOT go away. They are there until we reach heaven. Some may go away; some may not. What matters is what I do with them.
I guess that is why I do not understand the anxiety over whether homosexuality is biological or not. From a spiritual point of view, it doesn't matter one bit. A propensity to alcoholism can be biological, but that doesn't make it any less sinful, nor does it make the person any less responsible. It is simply a sinful tendency, and we all have our own besetting sins that we struggle with.
So, if it is biological (and I don't know whether it is or not) we could even say: A tendency to homosexuality is biological, it isn't free choice, they can't help it, and they are responsible and they must resist acting upon it. They can be saved and still stuggle with the inclination, and they may struggle their entire life with it.
Romans 1 does indicate that homosexuality is judgment--I wonder what that says about it being 'free choice'? Interesting to think about.
My .02 for what it's worth.
"There was only one hope for me—that the infinite wisdom of God might make a way for the love of God to satisfy the wrath of God so that I might become a son of God."--Dr. John Piper
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dolfan
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I don't know, either, for sure. I'm inclined (no pun intended) to agree with Tracy.
In the end, I'm not sure it matters whether homosexual proclivity is biological/genetic. I might be particularly attracted to redheads, but if I'm not feeding my brain with lustful ideas and images or feeding my attraction with immoral sex in its various forms, then I'm just attracted to redheads. The impact of my yielding to that attraction improperly is no less devastating to me, my family, my loved ones, and the redhead(s) than would be a man yielding to homosexual proclivity with homosexual activity. The moral posture of that yielding to God may be another matter altogether; that is, the abominable nature of it may be especially rotten as far as God is concerned, and we've been warned about that. We've also, though, been warned way more often by example and by explicit teaching about heterosexual adultery, lasciviousness, lust, etc. and how God views it. Again, it seems to me that the distinctions between them are largely inventions we've created. Adultery, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is sinful. I don't think we can sanctify, even just a little bit for the sake of our own tastes, heterosexual adultery by pointing out that it at least has the potential for procreation or, in the right circumstances, a good marriage.
Just my .02.
I do, though, think homosexuality is just particularly sick and disgusting. I can't escape that, either.
In the end, I'm not sure it matters whether homosexual proclivity is biological/genetic. I might be particularly attracted to redheads, but if I'm not feeding my brain with lustful ideas and images or feeding my attraction with immoral sex in its various forms, then I'm just attracted to redheads. The impact of my yielding to that attraction improperly is no less devastating to me, my family, my loved ones, and the redhead(s) than would be a man yielding to homosexual proclivity with homosexual activity. The moral posture of that yielding to God may be another matter altogether; that is, the abominable nature of it may be especially rotten as far as God is concerned, and we've been warned about that. We've also, though, been warned way more often by example and by explicit teaching about heterosexual adultery, lasciviousness, lust, etc. and how God views it. Again, it seems to me that the distinctions between them are largely inventions we've created. Adultery, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is sinful. I don't think we can sanctify, even just a little bit for the sake of our own tastes, heterosexual adultery by pointing out that it at least has the potential for procreation or, in the right circumstances, a good marriage.
Just my .02.
I do, though, think homosexuality is just particularly sick and disgusting. I can't escape that, either.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
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RaceRunner
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I agree with Racerunner.
Two answers here:
Free choice and spiritual problem.
The spiritual problem is sin and the free choice is what sin has you bound.
Sadly, as more and more people begin to accept that it is by birth, (which is what the world and science will continue to push), sex with children, animals, the dead, and insert sexual sickness of choice here, will soon be able to be defended as "born that way".
Two answers here:
Free choice and spiritual problem.
The spiritual problem is sin and the free choice is what sin has you bound.
Sadly, as more and more people begin to accept that it is by birth, (which is what the world and science will continue to push), sex with children, animals, the dead, and insert sexual sickness of choice here, will soon be able to be defended as "born that way".
There never was a horse that couldn't be rode and there never was a cowboy that couldn't be throwed.
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RamboPreacher
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I don't happen to believe that there is a "gay-gene", even if it is a mutant one. But, I don't say that it could never be. I do believe that there may be genetic influence, though. but as you allude, I believe that even if there is a direct genetic issue (and thus part of the curse of the fall), it is still something that can be overcome. choice.MacUser wrote:People are born retarded, without limbs, without eyes, rare genetic disorders etc etc.
They have to overcome as we all do. This is no different.
Thanks, Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
RamboPreacher wrote:but as you allude, I believe that even if there is a direct genetic issue (and thus part of the curse of the fall), it is still something that can be overcome. choice.
Bingo Exactly. We don't have wings... yet we can fly. Our choice trumps our genetics (ie; Genetics is NO excuse )
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Pastor Bill
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From what I have seen in family, friends and others who have chosen this lifestyle, or have overcome this lifestyle I think there is much more to do with nurture over nature.
Meaning I guess there could be some biological leanings towards it, just as there are some who biologically will become alcoholics easier than others, but that doesn't change sin from being sin. But I think it's more from disfunctional relationships, abuse, lack of or distance from same sex parent, etc that plays more of a role in this.
I answered that there is more than one reason, because I don't think it's a simple as some want to make it sound, this is a real temptation and real issue people deal with, and many don't feel they have a choice. We know really they do, and that choice is Christ as he can heal the emotional, biological and spiritual issues surrounding this.
Meaning I guess there could be some biological leanings towards it, just as there are some who biologically will become alcoholics easier than others, but that doesn't change sin from being sin. But I think it's more from disfunctional relationships, abuse, lack of or distance from same sex parent, etc that plays more of a role in this.
I answered that there is more than one reason, because I don't think it's a simple as some want to make it sound, this is a real temptation and real issue people deal with, and many don't feel they have a choice. We know really they do, and that choice is Christ as he can heal the emotional, biological and spiritual issues surrounding this.
"Why would God allow Hitler his chapter in history? Why would God send a whale to swallow Jonah or turn a woman into a pillar of salt? Surely there were other ways. But I'll leave the particular methods of God to God."
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
-Spoken by David Abraham, Showdown by Ted Dekker
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dolfan
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I suddenly wish I was color blind. 
But, um, (hard to think looking at these colors -- whew!) I was reading a list of openly gay celebrities that was linked to another news story I was reading. Johnny Mathis and Cherry (President Allison Taylor on '24') Jones are said to be openly gay. Now, Mathis surprises me some .... some. Jones? I didn't know her before 24, but she is a noted lesbian actress of some fame it appears, a Tony-winner. She does a good job on 24, I'll say that. And, her "daughter" on there favors her a lot. Good casting.
Has nothing to do with the topic really, just thought that was interesting.
But, um, (hard to think looking at these colors -- whew!) I was reading a list of openly gay celebrities that was linked to another news story I was reading. Johnny Mathis and Cherry (President Allison Taylor on '24') Jones are said to be openly gay. Now, Mathis surprises me some .... some. Jones? I didn't know her before 24, but she is a noted lesbian actress of some fame it appears, a Tony-winner. She does a good job on 24, I'll say that. And, her "daughter" on there favors her a lot. Good casting.
Has nothing to do with the topic really, just thought that was interesting.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
I could have almost answered with numbers 2,3,and 5. I believe that it is a choice that may or may not be biological, however because of the fall it is but one of the many outward expressions of sin in the heart of a sinful being. We are all subject to sin and failure in both our physical and our spiritual bodies.
"My eyes are ever on the Lord, for only He will release my feet from the snare." Psalm 25:15
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One chooses to sin.God didn't make man that way. Homosexuality isn't simple sin it's an abomination. (Against Creation)
Leviticus 18:
22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
James 1:
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Leviticus 18:
22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
James 1:
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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pastorables
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I believe Homosexuality is a spiritual issue and not genetic, unless Satan is somehow allowed the authority to alter God's "fearful and wonderful" creation in the womb. The Bible even speaks against those who are effeminate.
pa
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose."Jim Elliot - Missionary Martyr
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