Yet ANOTHER dead horse beating

[KelleyD]

How can you forgive someone who isn't repentant ? When someone is living in adultery they are in perpetual sin. To be repentant would mean that they quit that. People who have been born going to church and have always known the scriptures against divorce and remarriage act like now they can remarry and just ask Jesus to forgive them and then just continue living in adultery and it somehow is not adultery. I use to argue this point years ago against one of the persons with this site years ago on the COGOP site. The scriptures are clear on this subject and the only ones that are confused are those who haven't studied this subject out. To argue that divorce and remarriage is ok is to argue with Gods' word not me. To find out more on the subject from someone who wrote a book about this subject using scriptures from the KJV, check out "What the Bible Really Says About Divorce and Remarriage" by Dr. Joseph Webb http://rudvin.net/webb/ to download his audio for free, or www.marriagedivorce.com
God Bless You

[Pastor Gary]

How can you forgive someone who isn't repentant ? When someone is living in adultery they are in perpetual sin.

Can you please cite a scripture (KJV will be just fine) for the concept of "perpetual sin"? If one tells lies, stops and tells no further lies, are they perpetually a liar for the lies they have already told?

To be repentant would mean that they quit that.

So, following your logic: a person who had been divorced, and then got remarried... only to realize they were repentant, should stay where they are and quit divorcing and remarrying. After all, breaking TWO covenants is worse than breaking just one, isn't it?

People who have been born going to church and have always known the scriptures against divorce and remarriage act like now they can remarry and just ask Jesus to forgive them and then just continue living in adultery and it somehow is not adultery.

Imagine that! Believing that the blood of Jesus cleanses from all unrighteousness and then living as if their sins are as far as the east from the west! The audacity!

To find out more on the subject from someone who wrote a book about this subject using scriptures from the KJV...

What does the KJV have to do with this... unless you have a doctrinal view that can only be propped up by proof-texting in a certain translation.

Oh, yeah --- it's customary on Jude2 to slide in gently, introduce yourself, and THEN open up, guns blazing.

[pastorables]

by Dr. Joseph Webb

I will not dispute or debate you on the subject of divorce and remarriage as I have many unanswered questions, however, I will say that Dr. Joseph Webb is a very poor example to use if you are desiring to sound credible. I have heard Joseph Webb in person and I have read his book, "Till Death Do Us Part".

In person, Dr. Webb came across as arrogant and unloving. He went so far as to call the grandchildren produced by second marriages: bastards (children that wouldn't be welcome in his home). Furthermore, the book, "Till Death Do Us Part", only tackles the issue of divorce and remarriage from a predetermined conclusion and leaves many questions unanswered or even considered. Fornication is only considered from a predetermined mindset and many scriptures concerning fornication are purposely left out of the book.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in your beliefs concerning divorce and remarriage, but be careful that you don't tarnish your credibility with poor references.

Sincerely,
pa

[Poimen]

Can you please cite a scripture (KJV will be just fine) for the concept of "perpetual sin"? If one tells lies, stops and tells no further lies, are they perpetually a liar for the lies they have already told?

How about Romans 6:1. Sure, it's in the negative voice here, but it underscores the idea of one being able to continue in sin.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Of course then, there is the NIV of 1 John 3:6. It says...

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Keeps on, continues to, & continues in are synonymous with "perpetual."

So, following your logic: a person who had been divorced, and then got remarried... only to realize they were repentant, should stay where they are and quit divorcing and remarrying. After all, breaking TWO covenants is worse than breaking just one, isn't it?

ONLY if the first covenant has in point of fact been dissolved and is no longer binding. See the reply to the next quote for more about that.

Imagine that! Believing that the blood of Jesus cleanses from all unrighteousness and then living as if their sins are as far as the east from the west! The audacity!

There is one slight problem there PG. Those who believe their sins have been pardoned and are gone have turned to God from their sin, leaving it behind. According to the NT a person who is in a marital state of adultery continues to be in adultery as long as their spouse lives, even if they are technically married to another person, UNLESS there previous spouse is dead.

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Notice that the duration of the sin is explicitly connected to the longevity of the so-called "previous" spouse. Hence, this sin of adultery is ongoing "while the spouse lives".

Evidently then it is possible to be divorced and remarried by earthly standards and yet still in truth be in marital union with the living spouse.

Of course, if the spouse is dead there is liberty to remarry. But then, that itself argues against remarriage while one's spouse lives.

Again, unless one can show a definitive case where God has dissolved their union with their spouse (not saying that there is such a thing, just permitting that IF such were so that would constitute an exception here), permitting remarriage without any attachment of sin being involved, they are still Biblically bound to their previous spouse and covenant. So long as that spouse lives if they remain remarried they are committing adultery.

[Pastor Gary]

Can you please cite a scripture (KJV will be just fine) for the concept of "perpetual sin"? If one tells lies, stops and tells no further lies, are they perpetually a liar for the lies they have already told?

How about Romans 6:1. Sure, it's in the negative voice here, but it underscores the idea of one being able to continue in sin.

Nobody is debating whether a person can continue in sin; that's a given. The issue that has been debated ad nauseum here is whether D&R constitutes a one-time act of sin, or whether (as I assume you believe) the fact that there is subsequently an ongoing sexually intimate relationship in the remarriage makes it continually sinful.

Since I have spent way too many hours of my life retreading the same tired arguments here and elsewhere, I'll let someone else with more energy fight this one out while I watch from the sidelines.

[Shellie]

Okay, it's like this...............ahh, never mind.

Kelly, you must be quite a reader with time on your hands if you pulled up a thread from 4 years ago.

[Poimen]

The issue that has been debated ad nauseum here is whether D&R constitutes a one-time act of sin, or whether (as I assume you believe) the fact that there is subsequently an ongoing sexually intimate relationship in the remarriage makes it continually sinful.

Well, obviously, if the marriage itself is sinful then sexual activity within it is sinful. However, that was not my argument at all.

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives. Only when the spouse is dead is remarriage divinely permitted according to Romans 7:3, else "while they live" constitutes an ongoing sinful condition or "state."

[Shellie]

Poimen wrote:

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery.

According to the NT...if a spouse committed fornication with someone else which led to a divorce OR if the believer was married to a non-believer and that non-believer wished to go your above statement would not be true. Depending on the circumstances, these two would not be under bondage i. e. released from the original marriage and therefore would NOT be commiting adultery.

[Poimen]

According to the NT...if a spouse committed fornication with someone else which led to a divorce OR if the believer was married to a non-believer and that non-believer wished to go your above statement would not be true. Depending on the circumstances, these two would not be under bondage i. e. released from the original marriage and therefore would NOT be committing adultery.

If (and I stress if) that is what the NT actually teaches then, yes, those circumstances would constitute an exception resulting in the dissolving of the marriage union and granting liberty to remarry without it being adultery.

[deb]

Hey look - It's AmyDawn on page 1!! Whatever happened to her; does anyone know?

[Shellie]

Poimen wrote:

If (and I stress if) that is what the NT actually teaches then

Would you care to expound on why there is even a question in your mind about IF this is really what the NT teaches?

[RamboPreacher]

unless someone in the TCOG tells you it is a sin, then one might not have ever known how big of a sinner they are.

does someone that breaks the law and drives 70 in a 55 zone have only one sin to be forgiven, or a sin per mile or a sin per mile an hour over?

nothing like bringing up old topics to make ones brain dance.

Thank you, (Thread-necromancer-KelleyD and) Poimen for reminding me that you believe and insist that I am an unrepentant sinner and apparently unsaved as I continue remaining with my wife. ahh - the love.

[teach]

I voted 100% for change

wendy k

[RamboPreacher]

I voted 100% for change

wendy k

hehehe - but did you vote that 4 years ago when this thread was created?!?!

[teach]

I voted 100% for change

wendy k

hehehe - but did you vote that 4 years ago when this thread was created?!?!

I don't remember ever voting on this... but, probably not.

wendy k