Will The Temple Be Rebuilt?

[Gerald Creasy]

How can the army of a man worshiped as God (Ceasar) enter and destroy a city, totally wipe out the Temple, cause over 1 Million deaths (according to Josephus) and his men sacrifice to their standards after the victory -AND THE TEMPLE NOT BE ABOMINATED?

Just wonder how you view that from the history of Josephus.
Wars of the Jews
"In which on the seventeenth day of Panemus the sacrifice called " the Daily Sacrifice" had failed."

I wonder what is the abomination that is set up three and half years later??? When you said it's because his men and thier standards. What would be the reason for anyone to flee at that time???

Dan 12:11
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Matt 24:15-16
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains

Yeah, WHY on Earth would anyone flee from thousands and thousands of troops storming into a city to slaughter people?

What an idiot the Futurist Jesus is to talk to people around him and NOT WARN THEM about a situation in which a million people would die but warn a future generation thousands and thousands of years in the future.

I have already said that the thousand two hundred etc days equal to the three and a half years of Christs ministry. With his death THE FINAL SACRIFICE the abomination is set up: the sacrifices the Jews make are abominations and the Process by which Jerusalem will be utterly destroyed is begun.

[beckrl]

How can the army of a man worshiped as God (Ceasar) enter and destroy a city, totally wipe out the Temple, cause over 1 Million deaths (according to Josephus) and his men sacrifice to their standards after the victory -AND THE TEMPLE NOT BE ABOMINATED?

Just wonder how you view that from the history of Josephus.
Wars of the Jews
"In which on the seventeenth day of Panemus the sacrifice called " the Daily Sacrifice" had failed."

I wonder what is the abomination that is set up three and half years later??? When you said it's because his men and thier standards. What would be the reason for anyone to flee at that time???

Dan 12:11
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Matt 24:15-16
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains

Yeah, WHY on Earth would anyone flee from thousands and thousands of troops storming into a city to slaughter people?

What an idiot the Futurist Jesus is to talk to people around him and NOT WARN THEM about a situation in which a million people would die but warn a future generation thousands and thousands of years in the future.

I have already said that the thousand two hundred etc days equal to the three and a half years of Christs ministry. With his death THE FINAL SACRIFICE the abomination is set up: the sacrifices the Jews make are abominations and the Process by which Jerusalem will be utterly destroyed is begun.

So you have changed what you have said, What the abomination is???

"and his men sacrifice to their standards after the victory -AND THE TEMPLE NOT BE ABOMINATED? "

Form 70AD now it's 33AD
The problem with saying that the abomination is in 70AD is that the scripture given the 3.5 years between the daily and the abomination. We find that Josephus give the day of seventeenth day of Panemus for the daily. That is only days away from the temple being burnt not 3.5 years.

For Christ 3.5 years of ministry with the beginning of his ministry the end of sacrifices and after the abomination? If Christ ended the daily at the beginning of his ministry wouldn't at that point be an abomination? Not 3.5 years later?

Did Jesus mean when they saw the abomination flee, was he speacking of his deaf????mmmmmm

[Gerald Creasy]

So you have changed what you have said, What the abomination is???

"and his men sacrifice to their standards after the victory -AND THE TEMPLE NOT BE ABOMINATED? "

I have not changed a thing. You are mis reading.

The question was HOW can men who worship another god or gods at the direction of their God destroy the Holy City and destroy the Sanctuary AND AT THE SAME TIME THE SANCTUARY WAS NOTABOMINATED!!!??

How is that possible?

YOU say the temple was not abominated then. Though blood was spilled in the fighting EVEN IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES, sacrifce to other gods were made on the temple mound and the entire city is laid waste.

Oh but it's still holy though it's not abominated.

LUDICROUS.

Form 70AD now it's 33AD
The problem with saying that the abomination is in 70AD is that the scripture given the 3.5 years between the daily and the abomination. We find that Josephus give the day of seventeenth day of Panemus for the daily. That is only days away from the temple being burnt not 3.5 years.

For Christ 3.5 years of ministry with the beginning of his ministry the end of sacrifices and after the abomination? If Christ ended the daily at the beginning of his ministry wouldn't at that point be an abomination? Not 3.5 years later?

His final sacrifice was not until after his ministry.

Did Jesus mean when they saw the abomination flee, was he speacking of his deaf????mmmmmm

I'm not sure I know what you mean with " was he speacking of his deaf?"

How can thousands and thousand of troops under the command of a man claiming to be God trample under and destroy the Holy City and the Jews NOT SEE THEM? HMMMMMmmmmmm????
Remember the corresponding parrallel passage of Luke (which is often ignored) TIES IN Jerusalem being surrounded with the abomination...YOU MUST DO THE SAME.

[beckrl]

Ok I must mis-read.

Which do you consider to be the abomination in which is "the abomination that maketh desolate set up" I have show it can't be with in the 70AD timeframe of history. Since the end of sacrifice failed, and only days later the temple burn.

His final sacrifice was not until after his ministry

You account for his ministry of 3.5 years that would make the end of the sacrifice at the beginning, right? and the abomination at the end, right?

The end of the daily and the 3.5 years between the abomination,right?
What were the abomination 3.5 years after are as you said ,His final sacrifice was not until after his ministry.

But I maybe still mis-reading.

I'm not sure I know what you mean with " was he speacking of his deaf?"

I was refering to his deciples in which he told them when ye see the abomination standing in the holy place, to flee. Was he refering to himself for as you account for his ministry as the fulfillment of the ending of the sacrifice then 3.5 years later the abomination.

[Gerald Creasy]

Ok I must mis-read.

Which do you consider to be the abomination in which is "the abomination that maketh desolate set up" I have show it can't be with in the 70AD timeframe of history. Since the end of sacrifice failed, and only days later the temple burn.

His final sacrifice was not until after his ministry

You account for his ministry of 3.5 years that would make the end of the sacrifice at the beginning, right? and the abomination at the end, right?

The end of the daily and the 3.5 years between the abomination,right?
What were the abomination 3.5 years after are as you said ,His final sacrifice was not until after his ministry.

But I maybe still mis-reading.

I'm not sure I know what you mean with " was he speacking of his deaf?"

I was refering to his deciples in which he told them when ye see the abomination standing in the holy place, to flee. Was he refering to himself for as you account for his ministry as the fulfillment of the ending of the sacrifice then 3.5 years later the abomination.

I think you are still misunderstanding me.

Jesus sacrifice brought about the end to the Temple Sacrifice. Did it end on the day of his sacrifice? Yes his sacrifice was complete. Did they continue to slaughter bulls and goats? Yes until the temple was destroyed.

I'm not sure how you have proved it could not have been in AD 70 since
you have not shown how an invading army under direction of a false God can trample the Holy city underfoot, destroy the sanctuary and then offer sacrifices at the Eastern Gate and it NOT be an abomination of desolation.

The temple was declared desolate by Jesus (Matt 23:38) (but futurist ignore it) and Stephen brings attention to Isaiah 66 on the day of his stoning which says -when read in totality-that the sacrifices are abominations (and futurist ignore that).

SO both physically and spiritually the temple was abominated in the first century.

[beckrl]

I guess what is confusing me is your use of Jesus being the end of the daily(which actual wasn't the physical ending) I do understand that Jesus fulfilles that lamb of God which was sacrified on the cross for our sins being the end of the daily. What I don't get is the timeframe in which you use the end of the daily, in which would be 30-33 then up to the 70AD to perclaim the abomination, which is some 40 years not 3.5

As for abomination's goes it can be a unclean animal to an gentile entering the holy place (mount moriah) In any case the temple would have to be cleaned before the daily can continue.

Yes, it was an abomination for the Roman's to enter the holy place. But were I misunderstand is the time span you give from the end of the daily to the abomination.

Josephus, said that the daily failed ""In which on the seventeenth day of Panemus the sacrifice called " the Daily Sacrifice" had failed." That same day his soldiers dig up the fountaions of the tower of Antonia.

Were is the 3.5 years?

[Gerald Creasy]

I guess what is confusing me is your use of Jesus being the end of the daily(which actual wasn't the physical ending) I do understand that Jesus fulfilles that lamb of God which was sacrified on the cross for our sins being the end of the daily. What I don't get is the timeframe in which you use the end of the daily, in which would be 30-33 then up to the 70AD to perclaim the abomination, which is some 40 years not 3.5

As for abomination's goes it can be a unclean animal to an gentile entering the holy place (mount moriah) In any case the temple would have to be cleaned before the daily can continue.

Yes, it was an abomination for the Roman's to enter the holy place. But were I misunderstand is the time span you give from the end of the daily to the abomination.

Josephus, said that the daily failed ""In which on the seventeenth day of Panemus the sacrifice called " the Daily Sacrifice" had failed." That same day his soldiers dig up the fountaions of the tower of Antonia.

Were is the 3.5 years?

But Josephus is not a Christian, his observations are historical. He records teh day the actual bloodletting ceased NOT the day the need of the sacrifices was ended.

Jesus sacrifice took away the need for sacrifices even though they sacrifices themselves continued for a few years more.

Jesus established himself as sacrifice (the need for any other is ended) after 3.5 years of ministry.

[beckrl]

I can see how you view those events, but it just don't filfull scripture.
You have said, the 3.5 years from the ending of the daily to the abomination is the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry. I have asked before did the desciples know that Jesus was refering to the abomination which would be at the end of his ministry which is the 3.5 years speaking of by Daniel.

70ad don't fulfill Daniel because of the days (1290)between these two event, because Josephus states it only days (100 "not sure the correct number")between the two events. If you assume that the setting up a standard image in the holy place as the abomination.

You see it don't add up. I guess we just see it different.

[Gerald Creasy]

I can see how you view those events, but it just don't filfull scripture.
You have said, the 3.5 years from the ending of the daily to the abomination is the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry. I have asked before did the desciples know that Jesus was refering to the abomination which would be at the end of his ministry which is the 3.5 years speaking of by Daniel.

70ad don't fulfill Daniel because of the days (1290)between these two event, because Josephus states it only days (100 "not sure the correct number")between the two events. If you assume that the setting up a standard image in the holy place as the abomination.

You see it don't add up. I guess we just see it different.

I still think there is a problem: Why would Jesus talk about a future abomination when the current temple would experience total obliteration and defilement?

Why would Daniel talk about a future cesation of sacrifice when the New Testament says there remains no more sacrifice and Jesus is the sacrifice ONCE for all.

If I get you correctly you refuse to see anything that happened between the sacrificall death of Christ and the Destruction of Jerusalem and the temple to be the fulfillment of Matthew 24. You do so using some type of time calculation.

But if you use that time calculation you have a host of questions you just cant ignore. Namely the questions I have asked here:

If Jesus is our High priest, why would God ever acknowledge another?
Is it WHosoever will or is it Whosoever will until the Jews get th new temple then it's whosoever will plus the blood of filthy beasts?

These questions IN ADDITION to the fact that Jesus while speaking to his disciples said that those things would happen to "this generation."

These questions MUST be answered in order for the Futurist Eschatologial System to survive.

And saying "Oh-well-it-dosent-fit-my-understanding-of-the-time-frame" does not fitfully answer the questions.

If Jesus is the sacrifice once and for all (as the NT tells us) HOW THEN will God acknowledge any other and therby condradict himself?

Your time frame does not negate the fact that this must be addressed.

[Full Quiver]

Thank you Gerald; this is interesting. I don't think I have ever read where you explained your position.

Wasn't the veil rent when Jesus dies?

[Gerald Creasy]

Thank you Gerald; this is interesting. I don't think I have ever read where you explained your position.

Wasn't the veil rent when Jesus dies?

I have often wisecracked that Futurist sew it back together so it can be torn asumder again.

[pastorables]

I still think there is a problem: Why would Jesus talk about a future abomination when the current temple would experience total obliteration and defilement?

Gerald,

I actually listened to a thought provoking sermon concerning this subject online recently. The minister offered that the temple was actually built and destroyed twice in history AND will be a third time. As a futurist, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with his thesis. However, there were many interesting thoughts to ponder in the sermon.

pa

[rough_rider]

Some believe the scriptures do point to the temple being rebuilt and the anti-christ will at some point sit on the throne declairing himself god. This some believe will take place sometime during the latter half of the tribulation when God pours out His wrath...

[Gerald Creasy]

I still think there is a problem: Why would Jesus talk about a future abomination when the current temple would experience total obliteration and defilement?

Gerald,

I actually listened to a thought provoking sermon concerning this subject online recently. The minister offered that the temple was actually built and destroyed twice in history AND will be a third time. As a futurist, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with his thesis. However, there were many interesting thoughts to ponder in the sermon.

pa

How is this different than anything preached in the last 40 years?

Did it address ANY of the questions I have raised?

Have you considered ANY of the questions I have raised?

Do you realize that Your Futurist belief EQUATES the blood of Bulls and goats as JUST AS GOOD AS the blood of the Blessed savior?

AND YOU DONT BLINK AN EYE!!!

IF you believe a future temple CAN BE HOLY ENOUGH TO BE ABOMINATED then a nasty snot slinging BUll is just as good as the sinless man!!!!

SURELY even YOU, Pastor Ables, have to have sense enough that this raises some very serious concerns about your Eschatological Belief system.

YOU rip the body of Jesus of The Cross and PUT A BULL UP THERE!!!

The culmination of redemptive history is not "It is finished!",
it is "MOOOOooooooo*****!!!"

[beckrl]

Let see if I can be more clearer, The timeframe:

If I get you correctly you refuse to see anything that happened between the sacrificall death of Christ and the Destruction of Jerusalem and the temple to be the fulfillment of Matthew 24. You do so using some type of time calculation.

But if you use that time calculation you have a host of questions you just cant ignore. Namely the questions I have asked here:

You then ignore the prophecy of of the 1290 days from the end of the daily to the abomination, in which Jesus said, to them to flee at that very moment they see the abomination standing in the holy place. The prophecy of Daniel 12:11

If as you claim the abomination is the continued animal sacrifice of the Jews, when Jesus by his sacrifice on the cross brought an end to the daily sacrifices.

Then one would have to account for the 1290 days of daniels prophecy which in a time frame is percisie. As you claim if this was fulfilled by Jesus per the prophecy you would be assuming that the abomination was set up at his deaf.
My question would be why did Jesus tell his discples to flee to the mountains after his deaf?

Jesus goes on to tell them that "For THEN shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to THIS time, no , nor ever be"

Are do you give a TIMEFRAME from between the sacrificall death of Christ and the Destruction of Jerusalem? Which is some 37 years , When the prophecy of Daniel say only 1290 days (only 3.5 years)

The only thing I can agree that was fulfilled in 70AD is the Destruction of the temple and city which is an fulfillment of both Daniel 9:26 and as Jesus proclaimed the temple will be torn down in Matthew 24:2

Remember Jesus were given an answer to three questions, not one.