Okay guys, I've been gone for a while from this site, but with the conference championship games it looks like a repeat for the National Championship game. How do you guys feel about a repeat of the Bama-LSU game? I have my feelings about it, and will wait to share them after I hear from a few of you.
PS. All you SEC homer's please try to lay aside your SEC bias.
National Championship Game
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National Championship Game
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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turbotim
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If OSU beats Oklahoma, I have no problem with them playing LSU for the BSC Championship. Do I think they are the second best team? No... But, that's hard to do in any system.
I actually would love to see LSU throttle OSU in a bowl. That deep relentless defense making OSU's offense look mediocre at best would be wonderful to see. LSU's offense would wear down the Pokes in the trenches and thrive in that porous pass defense too.
As far as Alabama, yes, they are spectacular. But they had their chance. That kicking game was/is pathetic and the game back in November was boring at best. I particularly don't care to see that again. But that is just me.
The only other match up that I would like to see would be a Stanford/LSU game. Stanford's defense is suspect so it would be great to see an SEC offense like LSU's to thrive. I would really like to see how good Stanford's offense (and Luck for that matter) is against a defense like LSU's.
Just my thoughts. Not a pro...
Good to see you back Rob. I was just thinking about you. Mountaineers headed to the Big 12. I would like to know your thoughts on that for real.
I actually would love to see LSU throttle OSU in a bowl. That deep relentless defense making OSU's offense look mediocre at best would be wonderful to see. LSU's offense would wear down the Pokes in the trenches and thrive in that porous pass defense too.
As far as Alabama, yes, they are spectacular. But they had their chance. That kicking game was/is pathetic and the game back in November was boring at best. I particularly don't care to see that again. But that is just me.
The only other match up that I would like to see would be a Stanford/LSU game. Stanford's defense is suspect so it would be great to see an SEC offense like LSU's to thrive. I would really like to see how good Stanford's offense (and Luck for that matter) is against a defense like LSU's.
Just my thoughts. Not a pro...
Good to see you back Rob. I was just thinking about you. Mountaineers headed to the Big 12. I would like to know your thoughts on that for real.
Hey Tim,
Thanks! I want to hear Dolfan's take on the NC game before I make my comment on that.
As for WVU going to the Big XII, I was really hoping that WVU was going to the SEC, I think we are a much better fit than Missouri. However, having said that, going to the Big XII is a saving grace for us on the football side. With football driving the athletic side of universities, it was what we had to do. The Big East was done, and we played mediocre football at best in that conference. No question we had the best talent the last 2 years and could not win the conference outright.
I hate it for us on the Basketball side, because the Big East is to basketball what the SEC is to football. Not a better conference in the country than the Big East in Basketball. The other problem I have is who is now going to be our big rival? I went to the Back Yard Brawl this year, simply because I felt it might be the last one. I hate the thought of us not playing Pitt year in and year out. I can't see us being a rival for Texas, Oklahoma or Kansas or Iowa St. So who is it going to be? Penn St. dropped us when they went to the Big Ten, and I'm sure Pitt series will end with them going to the ACC and us to the Big XII.
In the SEC, we could have been a rival with Kentucky very easy. But in the end it is what it is, and it will be fun to see Texas, Oklahoma make their way to "Touchdown City", and when we beat them, let the couch burning begin!!
Thanks! I want to hear Dolfan's take on the NC game before I make my comment on that.
As for WVU going to the Big XII, I was really hoping that WVU was going to the SEC, I think we are a much better fit than Missouri. However, having said that, going to the Big XII is a saving grace for us on the football side. With football driving the athletic side of universities, it was what we had to do. The Big East was done, and we played mediocre football at best in that conference. No question we had the best talent the last 2 years and could not win the conference outright.
I hate it for us on the Basketball side, because the Big East is to basketball what the SEC is to football. Not a better conference in the country than the Big East in Basketball. The other problem I have is who is now going to be our big rival? I went to the Back Yard Brawl this year, simply because I felt it might be the last one. I hate the thought of us not playing Pitt year in and year out. I can't see us being a rival for Texas, Oklahoma or Kansas or Iowa St. So who is it going to be? Penn St. dropped us when they went to the Big Ten, and I'm sure Pitt series will end with them going to the ACC and us to the Big XII.
In the SEC, we could have been a rival with Kentucky very easy. But in the end it is what it is, and it will be fun to see Texas, Oklahoma make their way to "Touchdown City", and when we beat them, let the couch burning begin!!
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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dolfan
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I prefer a playoff. I think it is the only fair way to name a champion. The next best thing is a plus one. The next best thing after that is the BCS as it is, IMO.
The problem, of course, is that the BCS is still a human poll driven creature -- a beauty contest, if you will. It has many obvious flaws. One of them is that two teams from the same division of the same conference who face each other during the regular season can, in spite of the fact that the loser of that regular season contest gets rewarded by not having to contend for its conference title while the winner has an extra opponent to face, rematch. That's a big flaw.
On the other hand, the stated goal of the BCS is to face-off the two "best" teams. If that's the goal, then all the rest of the flaws of the system become less relevant. The argument shifts from who DESERVES to play to who are the two best teams. I don't care about "deserving". That's not the way the system was designed.
Both Alabama and Oklahoma State could be said not to "deserve" based on their records, losses, wins, etc. There's so much mud in the water of that comparison that neither one of them objectively prevails.
So, what do you come back to? Votes. Plain and simple politics. Polls are probably the poorest way to make a decision. Democracy, even in football, is a bad tool for making specific choices like this.
Be that as it may, either Alabama or Oklahoma State are good choices. I will say this, though. Alabama will be a 3 to 5 point underdog in this game. Oklahoma State will likely be at least a touchdown if not more underdog. Vegas is not set up to lose. Those people are pretty well right or they wouldn't stay in such business. I think if Oklahoma State played LSU, LSU would beat them by three touchdowns. I think Alabama has a 50-50 chance at winning.
I disagree with the 9-6 LSU-Bama game in November as being boring. You have to love defense in the SEC because there's so much of it. The ball was moved between the 20s with some authority by Alabama but they couldn't convert. I don't think we'll see that particular dynamic repeat itself in the BCS game (that low score, I mean -- we could very well blow kicks).
The problem, of course, is that the BCS is still a human poll driven creature -- a beauty contest, if you will. It has many obvious flaws. One of them is that two teams from the same division of the same conference who face each other during the regular season can, in spite of the fact that the loser of that regular season contest gets rewarded by not having to contend for its conference title while the winner has an extra opponent to face, rematch. That's a big flaw.
On the other hand, the stated goal of the BCS is to face-off the two "best" teams. If that's the goal, then all the rest of the flaws of the system become less relevant. The argument shifts from who DESERVES to play to who are the two best teams. I don't care about "deserving". That's not the way the system was designed.
Both Alabama and Oklahoma State could be said not to "deserve" based on their records, losses, wins, etc. There's so much mud in the water of that comparison that neither one of them objectively prevails.
So, what do you come back to? Votes. Plain and simple politics. Polls are probably the poorest way to make a decision. Democracy, even in football, is a bad tool for making specific choices like this.
Be that as it may, either Alabama or Oklahoma State are good choices. I will say this, though. Alabama will be a 3 to 5 point underdog in this game. Oklahoma State will likely be at least a touchdown if not more underdog. Vegas is not set up to lose. Those people are pretty well right or they wouldn't stay in such business. I think if Oklahoma State played LSU, LSU would beat them by three touchdowns. I think Alabama has a 50-50 chance at winning.
I disagree with the 9-6 LSU-Bama game in November as being boring. You have to love defense in the SEC because there's so much of it. The ball was moved between the 20s with some authority by Alabama but they couldn't convert. I don't think we'll see that particular dynamic repeat itself in the BCS game (that low score, I mean -- we could very well blow kicks).
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
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dolfan
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Just FYI -- just read this -- LSU a 1.5 - 2.5 point favorite over Alabama right now, depending on the bookie. One interview with bookie says Alabama would have been a one point favorite after the LSU loss on a neutral field. But, with the game in the Superdome and LSU's stronger performance over last 4 games, LSU is favored, he says.
I know the LSU game banged us up pretty good. We've limped through the rest of the season. December off is nothing but good news.
And, this is hokey, but just the kind of thing Bama homers like me love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlNicqU_7M0&sns=fb
Apologies to David Allan Coe.
I know the LSU game banged us up pretty good. We've limped through the rest of the season. December off is nothing but good news.
And, this is hokey, but just the kind of thing Bama homers like me love.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlNicqU_7M0&sns=fb
Apologies to David Allan Coe.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
Here's my two cents, for what it's worth.
First, I am not an SEC fan for starters. Having said that, I don't want to see the BCS repeat. I seen it already, and although I felt like Bama should have won the game, they out played LSU, the fact is Bama lost at home. They played Arkansas at home and didn't play Georgia or South Carolina. The fact remains if Bama had a kicker they win hands down.
What about Oklahoma St. After the beat down they put on Oklahoma, I feel like they were the second best team in the nation. I know they lost on the road to a 6-6 Iowa St. team on the weekend of the plane crash that cost the women's coach his life.
Stanford had the bad loss to Oregon at home, so who knows they may have got it right. I can promise you one thing. I know one person this year that will not be watching the national championship game, because I've already seen it.
First, I am not an SEC fan for starters. Having said that, I don't want to see the BCS repeat. I seen it already, and although I felt like Bama should have won the game, they out played LSU, the fact is Bama lost at home. They played Arkansas at home and didn't play Georgia or South Carolina. The fact remains if Bama had a kicker they win hands down.
What about Oklahoma St. After the beat down they put on Oklahoma, I feel like they were the second best team in the nation. I know they lost on the road to a 6-6 Iowa St. team on the weekend of the plane crash that cost the women's coach his life.
Stanford had the bad loss to Oregon at home, so who knows they may have got it right. I can promise you one thing. I know one person this year that will not be watching the national championship game, because I've already seen it.
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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dolfan
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Rob, I respect all that. The one thing I might take issue with would be the impact of the fatal plane crash of the women's hoops coaches on the football team. I just cannot see that being serious enough to cause them to lose to Iowa State. I know that sounds callous, but really? That's not the kind of thing that so shocks a bunch of 18-22 year old brutes at a university of 22,000 that they couldn't outscore by one point a bunch of other 18-22 year old brutes that should've lost by 3 touchdowns. I just don't see it. 99 times out of 100, Oklahoma State wins that game. They didn't, just like Alabama didn't beat LSU. And, it hurt them for sure. I don't like the BCS system. I'm for a playoff. Settle it on the field. Of course, that may mean rematches, too, as happens in the NFL and the NBA and the CFL.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
Dolfan,
I respect and certainly understand where you are coming from. However, intercollegiate sports are so connected together, that I'm not sure how much impact that plane crash had on them either. But the fact remains it did happen just before the Iowa St. game and I agree it was a team that OK. ST should have beat by 3/4 touchdowns.
I also agree that there should be a playoff. I would be in favor of a +1 to begin. I would love to see the winner of the LSU/Bama game play the winner of the OK St/Stanford game for a true NC. I think that would be a good start. As for the BCS, please someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how Michigan and Va. Tech got in? What a joke.
As for the playoff I stated my position earlier, the only issue I take as while there are rematches in NFL, NBA, CFL, they have a playoff for rematches, the college season is their playoff.
You know what's really funny, is in 2003, Nick Saban stated, that if a team could not win their conference they should not play for the NC. Wonder if he want's to revisit that statement?
I respect and certainly understand where you are coming from. However, intercollegiate sports are so connected together, that I'm not sure how much impact that plane crash had on them either. But the fact remains it did happen just before the Iowa St. game and I agree it was a team that OK. ST should have beat by 3/4 touchdowns.
I also agree that there should be a playoff. I would be in favor of a +1 to begin. I would love to see the winner of the LSU/Bama game play the winner of the OK St/Stanford game for a true NC. I think that would be a good start. As for the BCS, please someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how Michigan and Va. Tech got in? What a joke.
As for the playoff I stated my position earlier, the only issue I take as while there are rematches in NFL, NBA, CFL, they have a playoff for rematches, the college season is their playoff.
You know what's really funny, is in 2003, Nick Saban stated, that if a team could not win their conference they should not play for the NC. Wonder if he want's to revisit that statement?
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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turbotim
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Rob wrote:
I also agree that there should be a playoff. I would be in favor of a +1 to begin. I would love to see the winner of the LSU/Bama game play the winner of the OK St/Stanford game for a true NC. I think that would be a good start.
Yeah, I really would like to see that too. I want the SEC to win, but I like the thought of them beating a team from another conference to win it. What I really don't understand is the fact that people are fusing about the BCS. The BCS relies on the Coaches and Harris Poll as well as the computers to pick the top two teams. The humans should have put OSU second if they wanted the BCS to see them as a #2 team. I do NOT blame the BCS; I blame the humans. The Harris Poll is done by humans right?
As for the BCS, please someone explain to me like I'm a 4 year old how Michigan and Va. Tech got in? What a joke.
This is totally ridiculous! The thought of the Sugar Bowl doing this is totally stupid and done out of plain greed. Leaving Boise State out to play a 6-6 Arizona State in the MAACO Bowl is sad. I believe Boise State has shown that they belong at least in the BCS bowls.
You know what's really funny, is in 2003, Nick Saban stated, that if a team could not win their conference they should not play for the NC. Wonder if he want's to revisit that statement?
I didn't realize that. haha...
I was also hoping that West Virginia would come to the SEC. 
Yes Tim the Harris and Coaches polls are done by humans, or so called humans. Folks that had the nerve to vote OK st. number 6 in the final poll should never be allowed to vote for anything again.
As for Boise, I don't feel like they deserved to be in the BCS picture at all. Their only good win was against a Georgia team that struggled early. I felt like Kansas St deserved a BCS bowl.
I was also hoping WVU was going to the SEC. It would have taken a few years, like it will in the Big XII, but we would have been able to compete when we were on a level playing field recruiting. I think the SEC will regret bring in Missouri. Missouri couldn't win the Big XII not sure they can compete in the SEC. That's my .02
As for Boise, I don't feel like they deserved to be in the BCS picture at all. Their only good win was against a Georgia team that struggled early. I felt like Kansas St deserved a BCS bowl.
I was also hoping WVU was going to the SEC. It would have taken a few years, like it will in the Big XII, but we would have been able to compete when we were on a level playing field recruiting. I think the SEC will regret bring in Missouri. Missouri couldn't win the Big XII not sure they can compete in the SEC. That's my .02
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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turbotim
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Rob wrote:As for Boise, I don't feel like they deserved to be in the BCS picture at all. Their only good win was against a Georgia team that struggled early. I felt like Kansas St deserved a BCS bowl.. That's my .02
L
Who do you think Kansas State should have played in the Sugar Bowl? Michigan?
I have a question. Why doesn't the Big XII want Boise State?
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TW
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turbotim wrote:I have a question. Why doesn't the Big XII want Boise State?
Answer (sort of):
Would you want a team with a BLUE, and I mean BLUE, field in your conference?
TW
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dolfan
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Rob wrote:You know what's really funny, is in 2003, Nick Saban stated, that if a team could not win their conference they should not play for the NC. Wonder if he want's to revisit that statement?
Actually, that's an internet myth. YOu can find 1,000 sources for it now because it has been so oft repeated. BUT, when the "quote" started -- the day of -- it was widely rebutted and a guy took up the challenge to find the quotation. He cited a Missouri newspaper article that can't be found online, and no print version of it has been scanned and offered. Everyone who quotes it throws in the 2003, but it simply has no source. The quote came from the ether.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).
turbotim wrote:Rob wrote:As for Boise, I don't feel like they deserved to be in the BCS picture at all. Their only good win was against a Georgia team that struggled early. I felt like Kansas St deserved a BCS bowl.. That's my .02
L
Who do you think Kansas State should have played in the Sugar Bowl? Michigan?
I have a question. Why doesn't the Big XII want Boise State?
I felt like K-State should have played Michigan St. I feel like the Sugar Bowl done a great injustice to the system by picking the school up North, oh, wait I can say Michigan now Rich Rod is gone from there.
As for Boise, I'm not sure why the Big XII doesn't want them, I'm surprised that the PAC-10 didn't take them. But the Big XII if they are going to go back to 12 teams and a conference championship game, I'd say they should take Boise!
If I were to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for business. I do the very best I know how, the very best I can, and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right will make no difference." -Abraham Lincoln
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