For Pastor Gary L.

[paul]

This post is also open to others but I addressed it to Pastor Gary because of a few remarks he made in reference to the IA.

What do you think cogop is doing to face the "greying" of the ministry? Real question...because when I go to many different organizations and look at the "Missionary Board" most all are very white headed. I am concerned as well

As you know most of my thrust is educational.....getting bible school programs developed in and among some of the most unreached and remote areas. What do you see cogop "Doing" to develop emerging leaders both home and abroad?

[Pastor Gary]

All I can address is what we are doing in Asia/Oceania — and we are doing all we can to reverse that trend. I have a Hawaii Ministry Development Center program to identify, disciple, empower and release emerging leaders. I ordained 3 younger men last year, and have about 4 more men and women in process right now. I have a 23-year-old young lady directing a Discipleship Training School patterned after the YWAM DTS process. Our worship team is youth led, and I am determined to build an army of passionate young leaders in Hawaii and now Kiribati.

I have a few good years left in me, I think, and have already begun grooming and developing a strong team of younger leaders for the time when the inevitable succession must take place. I know that Korea is doing an excellent job of developing a LOT of dynamic young leaders.

[DeWayneTN]

I think probably our best chance of fighting the "greying" of ministry is "Just For Men."

Seriously, though, I know this is a major concern in many organizations. Bishop Carswell Leonard has presented some conclusions on this subject for our leadership and during the Assembly. He used statistics from a variety of nonprofits. There are a variety of factors preventing the leadership turnover such as economics and generally people living longer and being more healthy. We have presented and discussed the questions but have not arrived at solid answers.

[paul]

I think probably our best chance of fighting the "greying" of ministry is "Just For Men."

Seriously, though, I know this is a major concern in many organizations. Bishop Carswell Leonard has presented some conclusions on this subject for our leadership and during the Assembly. He used statistics from a variety of nonprofits. There are a variety of factors preventing the leadership turnover such as economics and generally people living longer and being more healthy. We have presented and discussed the questions but have not arrived at solid answers.

While I would agree with most of Bro. Leonard findings I still think the obvious is missing.
Over the years as I have work to equip and train young men and women for ministry certain things begin to surface.
1. Education is not the answer (Alone) Education without focus, purpose and passion is no more than accumulated knowledge.
2. Equipping is more than just giving input, more than just gift assessment. If you are a solider and I give you a weapon and ammunition, I can say I equipped you for the battle. Not really, I must also give you opportunity to become familiar with your weapon, opportunity to test it and gain certain skills wit it befor I send you into battle.
3. How has cogop and how can other organizations address the issue of instilling a passion for the work of the ministry?

Personal Testominy: When I felt called to Pastoral Ministry, at that time there was not a local church open for me to go to. I was serving as Youth leader (VLB) My desire was so strong that I talked to my overseer and went to a nearby city and planted a cogop (1972) it is still functioning.

Have we older leaders failed to instill a sense of passion for the ministry?

BTW: " Just for Men " I should have a partnership in it as much as I use.

[ugpastor]

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[dawgs10]

I will say this. If I'm in a room with Asia leaders I'm old. If I'm n a room with north American leaders I'm very young. It makes me sad.

[secretary]

Amen to that! Going to the assembky is too costly and requires too much sacrifice to listen to who someone's family is.......not to mention the weak worship teams and poor selection of songs that we had ths year. I am just troubled that the anointing was missing at ths assembly. Just my feelings.

[Pastor Gary]

Amen to that! Going to the assembky is too costly and requires too much sacrifice to listen to who someone's family is....

I am not sure who started that old tradition of taking 5 minutes of 7,000 people's time to introduce one's entire family, but it is a tradition that needs to end. A one paragraph bio in the printed program could list the names of all the grandchildren of the speakers, or even include a small family photo.

...not to mention the weak worship teams and poor selection of songs that we had ths year. I am just troubled that the anointing was missing at ths assembly. Just my feelings.

Okay, this is something I have been hearing from people who attended and those who watched the webcast: they were not exactly overwhelmed with the worship (especially at night), and I have heard comments like "unrehearsed", "hot mess", and "a bunch of songs nobody under 30 knows and arranged in ways that the melody was unrecognizable." I would never want to hurt anyone's feelings who might have participated, but — honestly — I am a worshipper, and the musical worship is always a highlight of Christian gatherings for me, but I was totally alienated by this year's evening Assembly worship.

We seem to be a bit schizophrenic: we pay lip service to change, releasing emerging leaders and Vision 2020, but anyone attending worship at our major gathering, the International Assembly, would assume we were backward looking, heritage-focused and stuck in the past. Sorry, but that's my view.

[secretary]

Amen brother. The music/ worship has always been amazing at the general assembly. Everyone I hear from that attended or watched via web seem to agree this year the worship was not even close to being good! Well, actually it was awful. Worse than that.....absolutely NO ANOINTING!!! This is a shame because we do still have some great worship leaders and musicians left in the church. Don't get me wrong...we don't need entertainment. This year we had neither entertainment nor worship. It s sad when we have better quality and anointed worship in some of our smaller churches than we had at the general assembly. I was actually embarassed to have guest in our services....So much for my soap box......

[Pastor Gary]

...we do still have some great worship leaders and musicians left in the church. Don't get me wrong...we don't need entertainment. This year we had neither entertainment nor worship. It s sad when we have better quality and anointed worship in some of our smaller churches than we had at the general assembly...

I'll stick my neck out here — WAY out. I just got home late yesterday afternoon and have not been able to connect with my main leaders yet, so I do not know who is leading worship, who is scheduled to play, or what songs have been selected, but I am willing to invite you (all of you) to tune in to our live streaming webcast and compare what you see/hear to what we experienced at the Assembly, and make your own decision.

http://www.reunionhawaii.com/webcast.html

10:00 AM Hawaii time | 4:00 PM Eastern | 3:00 PM Central

[secretary]

I think that's a great idea! But I sure hope I didn't offend you Pastor Gary.

[Pastor Gary]

I think that's a great idea! But I sure hope I didn't offend you Pastor Gary.

Not offended at ALL.

[free]

I was struck by the fact that Bishop Leonard said that "old pastors" need to know when to step aside but he never said anything about "old overseers" stepping aside.

I also agree with the extended family introductions--it is a very dated and unnecessary tradition.

[PastorP]

I was struck by the fact that Bishop Leonard said that "old pastors" need to know when to step aside but he never said anything about "old overseers" stepping aside.

I also agree with the extended family introductions--it is a very dated and unnecessary tradition.

I personally feel insulted by the statement that "old pastors need to know when to step aside." I am in my 47th year of pastoral ministry and my 49th year overall in ministry, of which I have served the COGOP with nearly 38 years of full time ministry. Is the fact that my hair is white make me useless as a pastor. I feel that I am a progressive pastor and it is my desire to retire in a few more years. I have no desire to pastor using a walker or wheel chair, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We must be willing to glean from the "good" pastors that have served our congregations so faithfully for the past 50 or 60 years. We are now facing retirement with no provision from our churches to help slip into our retirement.

It should make us feel ashamed that after many years of service that our retired overseers and pastors have to find jobs to support their companion and themselves. I don't deny the need for a prepared young ministry to take the baton and run to the finish line, but don't forget the one that has brought the baton to you.

[free]

Pastor P, those were Bishop Leonard's words. I have the upmost respect for our senior pastors. I am a 3rd generation pastor and know all too well the struggles many of our seniors ministers have after they retire.

I pray that God blesses your ministry for many years to come. By the way, I don't consider myself old (45) but I have pastors for 25 years now and I have a head full of white hair!