COGOP ARK report

[Pastor Gary]

I received today a copy of the independent consultant's report to the leadership of COGOP, and read with interest some of the recommendations for dealing with property issues.

Have you read it yet? Check out this link:
http://www.cogop.org/page.aspx?id=597849

Let's hear what you think, pros and cons, about the recommendations. Please note in your response whether you are, in fact, a current COGOP member with a direct stake in the outcome. Whether you are or not, your opinion is valued.

[dawgs10]

not happy at all with the part of the report about the Fields of the Wood. Again i hope this is something that the membership "which is the church" has a say in. the offices should have been sold years ago and down sized to fit the staff. the TC campus is an ideal location. still not sure if an on site campus is needed. it seems we should be using the online courses that exist and streaming the money in that direction to add more depth to it. i am a minister and member in Cogop.

[scooter]

I wouldn't mind the offices sold. Moving and enhancing TC campus is a great idea.

As far as FOTW, I think there would be too much opposition to that.

However I believe that we could make some investments into the property that eventually could become self sufficient, such as chalets. We rent a chalet in that area almost every year. I imagine that we, the church, could develop and profit from such a venture.

You could probably sub divide a few parcels off and sell them while maintaining the intergrity of our history, unless we need to let go a bit more.

[dawgs10]

I wouldn't mind the offices sold. Moving and enhancing TC campus is a great idea.

As far as FOTW, I think there would be too much opposition to that.

However I believe that we could make some investments into the property that eventually could become self sufficient, such as chalets. We rent a chalet in that area almost every year. I imagine that we, the church, could develop and profit from such a venture.

You could probably sub divide a few parcels off and sell them while maintaining the intergrity of our history, unless we need to let go a bit more.

i like the chalet idea.

[Billy n NC]

What Scooter Said. Ditto but

Replace the subdivide word with Lease...

Look at Ridgecrest just a little over 100 miles east of FOTWs.
Also Billy Graham has a retreat in the Asheville area.

A conference center with some hotel accomodations.

Once a church onws LAND Never Never let it go.. (there are exceptions).


Now where is that site map of FOTW that was on Jude 2 several years ago. I may have look around for it.


And yes I am a member of the Great COGOP. And I been in the way for over 40 years.

[Pastor Bill]

I am a member and minister in the CoGoP, but didn't grow up in the church, so my long term ties to FOTW don't run as deep.

It doesn't surprise me that they recommended selling the property, but I do know many would NOT support that, and I hate to see us give up the land assets that we may regret down the road, BUT I do think this recommendation will cause people to put some real thought into what can be done to make better use of the property, increase income for the property, etc. and that would be a good thing, I like the suggestions I've seen here, they could be very good.

[dolfan]

Not a COGOP member.

The report makes sense. But, boy, there are a lot of what-ifs in there. I get, perhaps mistakenly, a sense from reading the executive summary that the Cleveland-based leadership would like to see the International Offices sold and relocated to the TC campus, and that they are less certain about the viability of rebooting TC, but that if they are going to make that a viable option then selling the offices is almost a must-do. As for FOTW, I get the sense -- again, maybe wrongly -- that they'd really, really like for a tornado to hit it and keep them from having to deal with that problem. It's a shame, but it is also a reflection of the days we're in --- things cost money and people aren't willing to put their own money into FOTW; that begs the big ol' question as to why the COGOP should put money into it if the people are already demonstrably voting against FOTW with their dollars and their feet even as they may cry out with their voices in support of it.

[SBW]

Been an active member of COGOP for 28 years.

Most of the report is great. We should sell the property on Keith Street, and utilize the TC campus. All that office space was needed prior to modern communications, but now it is not needed.

FOW does not need to be sold. Just a little more effort in promoting giving would cover the $100,000 a year deficit. The report reads like the place is falling apart. It was, but Bro. Holt put a lot of work into restoration the last couple of years. Also the ideas mentioned above, like putting a few cabins for vacation rental on the property, are good. RV/Camp sites would also be a good idea. My family and I visit FOW every so often, and we stay in Cleveland. I would actually stay on site at FOW if that were an option. I don't mean to turn it into a resort or anything, but back on the old air strip area there are good flat areas that could be developed and maybe generate a little revenue. A retreat/confernce center for rent might also be a good idea. Not everybody owns 200 beautiful Appalacian acres.

The report says that FOW has went from 48,000 financial supporters a year, down to 6000 a year (Heritage Memberships I presume). Why is that?...because Heritage Memberships are not promoted anymore. You never hear anything about it. Revamp it some way, and start promoting it again. Just a little effort.....

It is a place that is special to many denominations....maybe work off of that idea to generate some support..???..


Just my 2 cents.....

[darylscook]

I am currently a Pastor in the Church of God of Prophecy.

I think the idea of selling and combining our International Offices, WWPH, TC all into the area of TC now is a great idea.

I think selling FOTW would cause a lot of hurt feelings in the SE US. I think we should charge other churches (TCOG(TN,NC,one fold,Zion Assembly)) to have any type of service there to help with costs. I agree with the thoughts of RV, cabins. Of course that will take $$$ also.

Pastor Daryl

[PastorP]

It sounds as though, that all that are posting feel that the IO should be relocated to the old TC campus, it is hard to find any place to disagree with that suggestion.

As far as FOTW, to sell, would most certainly be a point of contention for many. I like the idea that Bill of NC has written. Lease the surrounding property to a reputable developer, and use the funds to keep the FOTW in good condition. I disagree with the thought of closing the park until...., because if left idle and empty it would only get into worse disrepair. Does anyone remember what happened to the Assembly Tabernacle when it was virtually deserted by the church, and it was beside the IO buildings on Keith Street in Cleveland.

Regardless of what is thought by any segment of the COGOP, we need to keep ourselves in a right spirit and not allow this to become an action that brings division. We have seen enough of that in recent years.

I have been a COGOP Member for 53 years and Bishop for 30 years.

[Pastor Gary]

I guess my initial read left me wondering about some of the underlying assumptions in the report:

For example, were the ARK consultants told at the outset, "Under no circumstances would we consider relocating our operations away from Cleveland, Tennessee."?

Just looking at the big picture here, is Cleveland the best place for the international operations center for a worldwide denomination? Is the communications, transportation and logistical infrastructure in that location world-class and advantageous for our continued growth and function? Cleveland was selected, if memory serves me, because of the proximity to railroads, the mode of travel of that era. Following that logic, wouldn't a location with a 30-40 minute drive to a major international airport make sense in the age of international travel?

(Just thinking out loud.)

As for FOTW - I have fond memories of a lot of Christmas times spent visiting with the J.W. McDill's when they were caretakers, so I enjoy FOTW but do not hold to some of the mythological ideas built around it. I would, however, hate to see COGOP sell that property. It would be a piece of history lost, much like the way the Azusa Street property in L.A. was lost to history when no pentecostal group bought and preserved it.

I think some one should approach the idea of developing FOTW into a rural Christian retreat/conference center complete with simple lodging facilities, to be operated under a lease/contract that would allow COGOP to retain ownership of the park, keep it open and maintained for daily casual visitors and maintain the Christian atmosphere of the place. Somebody has money... not me, but someone.

[beckrl]

Well, the pros of selling the keith street propherty relocating and redeveloped to the TC campus would be logical finanically.

But some how connecting the three complex's wouldn't be possible because the third is the FOW which services as an historical landmark.

My thought on this is it was said, "“We are not in a moment of crisis,” but one would have a report as this done to decrease the cash output flow.
In other words do we want to continue to put money into these complex's and only reap the little benefits that they bring. Do we simple sale them or do we have forward thinking. Like what was the thinking when we opened the FOW and how and who supported it.

[Who new]

I'm not a member and not even interested. But once upon a time I was a member and visited both the Assembly and Fields of the Wood.

It seems that selling the general offices would provide significant resources toward renovating or building a spiritual retreat center/youth camp that could have on-going, self sustaining activities. It's a mistake to treat it like a museum when spiritual reality is an on-going need that people keep coming back for. Don't look back, look forward. This isn't a property question it's one of vision.

[Billy n NC]

From these initial post selling HQs and rebuilding on the TC site seems to be acceptable among most.

FOTW would be an issue.

100,000 annual loss is not that big of a hurdle with the facility that we have. Keyword.

Marketing.... I have lived here in NC all my life and I have never seen
an advertisement for FOTW.

We have a Jewel in the Rough and just do not know how to market it or develope it.

We have skilled people at HQ's who could do / create a commercial or infomercial for FOTW Send these out to churches etc and yes some of the hotel chains. looking for investors There is a Holiday Inn Express with conference room/s here in Greensboro that would be ideal for a group of 200 or less

Just thinking..

There is a blog I frequent that has some great ideas for churches/religous organizations Its called Church Marketing Sucks.
sorry if the name offends here is the link

http://www.churchmarketingstinks.com/

[Pastor Gary]

Maybe we could partner with the churches of Korea to develop an American Prayer Mountain. If you have ever been to South Korea it is likely that you visited Osanri Choi Ja-sil Memorial Fasting Prayer Mountain. FOTW would be a truly ideal place for such a prayer and fasting retreat.