Pastors: Casting Out Devils

[paul]

Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?

Can you back this up with Scripture?

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

[Paully_44]

How do you know the "blue haze" was the Holy Ghost? I have been in many buildings with many people and seen hazes in the air. Was the holy ghost always there are were there other reasons?

One of my first years attending a CoGoP camp, i was bout 17 years old. one of the groups leaders after altar came to me and asked if I could see the "haze" around the lights. I was amazed that I could. But after I took my contacts out, the "haze" went away. I was bummed.

I guess I have never actually seen a blue haze.

[Gerald Creasy]

Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?

Can you back this up with Scripture?

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

I believe the OFTEN was the question. Because it was done once does NOT mean it was done OFTEN.

Again this is maddeningly ludicrous to be appealing to the Power of the Holy Spirit to justify ones belief in a Demonic superpower.

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald;
Please clarify for me what you are saying. This is what I am hearing you say. That any minister, preacher, ect that claims to have seen any manifestation of demonic power is a lair.

No you have changed the issue in debate. The issue in debate is not whether or not a minister faces demonic power. I'm sure he does (especially amongst his best members)

The issue is whether a demon can MANIFEST HIMSELF IN PHYSICAL FORM whether cat or by extension a human.


The cat story reminds me so much of hick superstition: Fear of Black cats, cats stealing breath from a baby and animal familiars of back woods "witches". It's all rural folklore. It's not Bible.

[Gerald Creasy]

I have resolved to believe no one and no thing but what can be proved by the Word Of God.

Response: I find that completly subjective and safely flawed.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

Subjective in that, proved by the Word, holds just as many differing meanings on both the conservative and liberal sides of interpretations of scripture.

Safely flawed, the scripture itself testifies that even actions of Christ during the years of His earthly ministry were so voluminous that they could not be contained within the expressed "Word of God".


Does that delegitimize their reality?

The believers relayed through Biblical text did not have the safety of the simple written Word and were forced to exercise their faith in reality rather than with the safety net of what has been done before.

Not that I believe in two headed monkies manifesting, I'm just saying.

I would agree though that we need to distinguish what is fable and folklore from fact and that the Word is the basic rule with certain caveats.

But again you can not use the miraculous untold works of Christ to EMPOWER the demonic.

God will NEVER contradict the word of God.

That is not subjective.

That is axiomatic.

If there is no RULE of the word of God what do you get?
(Other than the pandemonium of modern day Pentercostal extremeists?)

[Gerald Creasy]

Ron

I have no problem with being tired of the junk. We should all be. What I am taking issue with is someone who is demanding scriptural adhearane from everybody but himself. Yes we need to cry for accountability and demand it. But for a brother to belittle minister's the way.that has been done is just as wrong. To demand perfection and not be held accountable to operating in the fruit of the spirit is a bit more than just a little hypocritical. IMHO
DJ

But that's just it Pastor Don. I am countering ministers with the same measure they measured unto me during my formative years.

Hard. Inflexible. Merciless.

The Sword cuts both ways. If it cuts against the "wordliness" of those struggling to do right it bites sharply those who are sloppy and groundless in what they preach.

I am not afraid to wield it, as it was wielded against me.

[EagerBeaver]

I wonder something very legitimate here.

How many times have we seen someone act out and take it as being a demon, go over and pray repeatedly for the thing to come out, only to see nothing happen?

Also on that note, how many people has anyone here seen or prayed over to cast a demon out of, when it was more than likely (unintentionally) giving them an excuse for their bad behavior instead of holding them accountable?

[Gerald Creasy]

I wonder something very legitimate here.

How many times have we seen someone act out and take it as being a demon, go over and pray repeatedly for the thing to come out, only to see nothing happen?

Also on that note, how many people has anyone here seen or prayed over to cast a demon out of, when it was more than likely (unintentionally) giving them an excuse for their bad behavior instead of holding them accountable?

I wonder the same. I have heard tales of how ministers came up against a "demon" and could not cast it out.

I guess the name and Authority of Jesus has run out of gas.

I have sat in a service once where a woman claimed to be possessed by Satan himself....fortunately the minister just laughed at her.

From my camp experience the deans would be clearing the room and heading for the hills.

[Full Quiver]

Full Quiver wrote:
Pastor Ables wrote:
Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove?


Can you back this up with Scripture?


Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
_________________

Ok for the first point, as Gerald made mention of, we have 1 solitary instance in Scripture and not OFTEN.

Second point is the Word says the Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove. It does not say the Spirit descended in the bodily shape of a dove. The Spirit descended like a dove descends. If it was such a humbling experience for God to come to Earth as a man then how much more humbling must it have been for God to descend to Earth as a bird?

What if someone had shot that dove that day while hunting?

[paul]

Gerald;
Please clarify for me what you are saying. This is what I am hearing you say. That any minister, preacher, ect that claims to have seen any manifestation of demonic power is a lair.

No you have changed the issue in debate. The issue in debate is not whether or not a minister faces demonic power. I'm sure he does (especially amongst his best members)

The issue is whether a demon can MANIFEST HIMSELF IN PHYSICAL FORM whether cat or by extension a human.


The cat story reminds me so much of hick superstition: Fear of Black cats, cats stealing breath from a baby and animal familiars of back woods "witches". It's all rural folklore. It's not Bible.

Who are we to say it did or did not happen often ? The precedent was set in scriptures.

Satan was manifest in the form of a seprent, and used to tempt Eve in the garden and also to temp Christ. The precedent was set in scripture even though it happened twice in this manner.

I do not have the time. but I am sure that we could find many similar examples.

A major denomination bases a portion of its doctrine upon the fact that instruments are not mentioned in the New Testament, but rather to make a melody in ones heart. They believe that that set the precedent to not allow instruments not to be played in church.

Is Satan a superpower? Absolutely not. Is he equal with Jesus? absolutely not. Does he have power...Yep he does and it overtakes many you do not raliize that they have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus and, that power, has no authoority over the believer.

[scooter]

But again you can not use the miraculous untold works of Christ to EMPOWER the demonic.

God will NEVER contradict the word of God.

That is not subjective.

That is axiomatic.

If there is no RULE of the word of God what do you get?
(Other than the pandemonium of modern day Pentercostal extremeists?)

Response:

In regards to your disagreement - You are argue too many points at once and assume too much. I was speaking more to experience rather than a "manifesting demon". Sorry I thought I clarified that by saying, "NOT THAT I BELEIVE IN TWO HEADED MONKIES".

[kurt73]

If demonic spirits can look like people (ghost) what keeps them from taking a form of a animal?

I have seen a person crawl like a snake on the floor when the Evangelist was casting out the demon.

Regradless if they can or not make sure you are right with God before you go casting demon outs. I often wonder how Priest do it in the Catholic religion?

[one love]

Gerald I have not read all the thread but do you disagree that the devil/demon could transform into a serpent as in the garden? How about cast into a bunch of swine?

Just so I understand this better thanks!

[scooter]

Gerald I have not read all the thread but do you disagree that the devil/demon could transform into a serpent as in the garden? How about cast into a bunch of swine?

Just so I understand this better thanks!

Response: I think he would say being in a pig is different than manifesting as a pig.

[Gerald Creasy]

If demonic spirits can look like people (ghost) what keeps them from taking a form of a animal?

I have seen a person crawl like a snake on the floor when the Evangelist was casting out the demon.

Regradless if they can or not make sure you are right with God before you go casting demon outs. I often wonder how Priest do it in the Catholic religion?

I have seen a man stalk around a sanctuary with his arm coiled like a snake hissing.......but of course he was an old "saint" so somehow everyone reconciled this behavior as being "the Holy Spirit".

I'd use the eye roll emoticon but it'd really trivialize the disgust.

Where does the Bible say that a demon can appear as a person or a ghost?