Pastors: Casting Out Devils

[Gerald Creasy]

That is the most childish thing I ever heard you say "No one has given a scripture in any shape that says a demon can ASSUME the shape of a cat" That is something my 8yr old would say. Come on my friend, stop grasping for straws.

Plus show me in the bible where it can not happen?

Insults show nothing but your inability to meet the objection properly.

Maybe you need to return to childhood and understand a little of Sola Scriptura.

[paul]

Scooter....I stand corrected except for the fact (and I should have noted such) my emphasis....word.....The word is God's word.....

Anyway, I thank you for any others who may not have not caught this....

Response: No problem. I see "God" as true in an infinite fashion.

The written "Word of God" is finite textually.

I was addressing the issue of "If it didn't happen in the Bible it couldn't happen."

I believe Paul's context of what I think is David was speaking more of the personal experience with God, what God has said to ones heart, being true rather than only the written "word".

For example if the Holy Spirit placed an unction in me to do something that my fellows attempted to keep me from I would choose God's truth, which comes in personal revelation.

Is God's Word spoken to my heart God's word even though it may not be a Biblical passage?

I will boldly say yes.

Knowing the voice of the Shepherd and His personal touch transcends the text only approach.

The best examples we have in the NT of Christianity didn't have the NT.

Well said scooter.

[Gerald Creasy]

The God who anoints me to preach will judge my sermons.

I didn't read the remark as toward myself only. It sounded like a slam against Mississippi, especially with your purposed miss-spelling and all.

Now you call my grandmother a hick? I take offense to that, Gerald. Do you have no chivalry whatsoever?

pa

If you preach backwoods superstition as Gospel the question has to become Who is the God that annoints you?

The question is dire being you have appealed to the power of the Holy Spirit to STRENGTHEN THE POWER OF YOUR DEMONS.

Which is bizarre to the infinite degree.

I love Mississippi. If it werent for a severe case of toximia I would have been born in Yazoo.

[kurt73]

That is the most childish thing I ever heard you say "No one has given a scripture in any shape that says a demon can ASSUME the shape of a cat" That is something my 8yr old would say. Come on my friend, stop grasping for straws.

Plus show me in the bible where it can not happen?

Insults show nothing but your inability to meet the objection properly.

Maybe you need to return to childhood and understand a little of Sola Scriptura.

No Gerald, I did the very same thing you do to me and others on this site and if you feel this way then you are guilty also because this is exactly what you do.

[Gerald Creasy]

No Gerald, I did the very same thing you do to me and others on this site and if you feel this way then you are guilty also because this is exactly what you do.

Fine then. I shall forever think of you as Jude2s own PeeWee Herman whos only ability in discussion is to whine "I know you are but what am I?"

[kurt73]

No Gerald, I did the very same thing you do to me and others on this site and if you feel this way then you are guilty also because this is exactly what you do.

Fine then. I shall forever think of you as Jude2s own PeeWee Herman whos only ability in discussion is to whine "I know you are but what am I?"

Again, very childish Blinded by your own self rightousness

[dolfan]

I admit I have huge reservations about depending on stories from the past to actually describe the activities of God. That said, what is the Bible but stories from the past actually describing the activities of God? I guess that makes me a nonbeliever?? NO!

We experience God's truth in time, place and circumstance. We just do. Scooter's example is a good one. At the same time, the Scripture is our sole basis for authority on all matters about the faith, right? Appealing to text to support a bigger point of belief when that belief is informed by something other than the Scripture ---- that's where we have to be careful.

An example we've all heard: the infamous blue haze in a really get-going service. Now, I'll say up front: I disbelieve. I'm the anti-Mulder on this one. But, let's say someone truly believes the accounts because of a trusted believer's telling of it. It is no insult to dismiss that account. The belief in it is informed by something other than Scripture. And, I've heard older folks who claim they saw it say it was like the day of Pentecost, the Spirit filling the room and all that. And, it is EASY to link that, but that doesn't make it truthful. And, if it is factually true, what's the take away? What do you take away from that account when you hear it? That God likes blue? What do you DO with it? Well, nothing, that's what you do. And, if you can't do something with it, what's the good of it? So, even if it is factually true, it doesn't mean anything. If a demon turned into a cat and bolted out, I'd be amazed and I'd probably tell it over and over if I saw it. It is sensational. It is not edifying. So, the devil can turn himself into a cat. Okay. It doesn't mean anything if he doesn't run in front of my car.

The problem, IMO and just IMO, is not whether to believe these stories. Go ahead, believe them. The point is that there's really no point to them other than to make you go, "Oooohhh, what about that?" There's already all kinds of stuff to make you do that. Just watch World's Most Dangerous Police Chases. Don't base your faith on them, don't form expectations of God's activity from them.

[Pianoman]

Okay - I've followed this discussion with intrigue - formed
my own personal opinions - and I don't mean this in a
sarcastic or mocking way - but doesn't anybody besides me
wander which 1/2 of the cat the demon was alleged to have
manifested into? Was it like a floating head - or the top
half or what?

[kurt73]

Okay - I've followed this discussion with intrigue - formed
my own personal opinions - and I don't mean this in a
sarcastic or mocking way - but doesn't anybody besides me
wander which 1/2 of the cat the demon was alleged to have
manifested into? Was it like a floating head - or the top
half or what?

LOL, good point but I'm not sure this happen at all. They're a lot of stories floating around and that is it, they are stories. Can it happen, i guess but unless I get witnesses that I trust I assume it is a story.

[paul]

dolfan

And, if it is factually true, what's the take away? What do you take away from that account when you hear it? That God likes blue? What do you DO with it? Well, nothing, that's what you do. And, if you can't do something with it, what's the good of it? So, even if it is factually true, it doesn't mean anything. If a demon turned into a cat and bolted out, I'd be amazed and I'd probably tell it over and over if I saw it. It is sensational. It is not edifying. So, the devil can turn himself into a cat. Okay. It doesn't mean anything if he doesn't run in front of my car.

Isn't this an assumption on your part. What if a person comes into a service, desperate, saying under his breath God you must manifest yourself to me in some way tonight or I can't stand to live any loner, I just need to know that you are there. A blue haze appears, possibly he is the only one that sees it. What does it mean? for this man possibly life or death. Years later he tells the story of the night he saw the blue haze.

What do you take away? maybe faith that God still does move in tangable ways in and among His people. Maybe nothing, maybe a whole lot. Who are we to say?

When God led the Israelites out of Egypt, scriptures said he led them with a cloud by day and a pillar of fire at night. What was the purpose. Possibly a cloud that was more than a guide but also a protection from the sun in the deseart keeping them from burning up under the sun. The pillar of fire at night to warm them and keep them from freezing.

What are the purposes of God physical manifestations to his people ?
Should a believer need them in order to have faith?
Would we like to see one from time to time ?
Are they for believers to reinforce faith ?
Or are they for the unbeliver to cause him to have faith ?

None of us were there when God hung the sun, moon and stars. If there is any kind of precedent in scripture wheter its often or only once, what to say God can't do it again if He so chooses.

[Pastor Don]

Dolfan;
As to your question of what do I take away from it. I take the fact that God's power was demonstrated over the demonic. I take that a woman who was fitfully bound from an inward demon was set free. I take away the fortification of my faith because I have seen what God does in the life of those bound by demons. I take away an extra measure of faith because surely if God can loose that woman from her situation then surely He can handle those demons who try but fail to usurp the authority of God in my life. To take it a step further, just as the Apostle Paul told the stories of what happened in his ministry and life to bolster the faith and encourage the saints, so I share the experiences of my life for the same purpose.

I think Kurt73 summed it up in his statement..." unless I get witnesses that I trust I assume it is a story". What I gather from that is if he does not know them personally or have a intimate relationship with them he will discount it as a story. If it is Just a Story what is meant by that? one of two things it is a true story or it is a false story.

As for the cat thing...I happen to know Bishop Ables. I have for more than 10 years now. He has proven himself to be a man of integrity. I had the privileged of attending Promise Keepers in Washington, DC with him and seeing the compassion and love of God in him I would be hard pressed to discount the "stories" he is willing to share. I know with out a shadow of a doubt that if he felt in his spirit that it would edify the body of Christ he would share it. And if he choose to share it I would believe him. As I will give trust in anyone's word until they prove themselves untrustworthy.

Gamaliel gave some good council when he told the men of Israel: "38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

Another asks the question Who has know the mind of God? I personally never would have thought that God would give over a faithful servant to satan to be buffeted but HE did. I never thought Jesus Himself would even give ear to demons, but He did. I never in a million years thought that the Holy and righteous God of heaven would call a man that committed adultery and had a part in the murder of the husband of the woman with whom he committed the adultery, He would call him a man after His own heart...But again He did.

If He chose to allow a demon to manifest as a partial cat...so be it. If He chooses to use the foolishness of men telling "stories" to further HIS gospel....well I think if your going too, you would have gotten the picture by now.

DJ

[Full Quiver]

Satan was manifest in the form of a seprent, and used to tempt Eve in the garden and also to temp Christ. The precedent was set in scripture even though it happened twice in this manner.

I suppose Paul is on the mission field so I ask someone to back up his statement with Scripture. Where in the WORD of God does it say that Satan in the form of a serpent tempted Christ? I'm asking for Scripture and not a line or scene from a movie based on someone's interpretation of the Scriptures.

Pastor Ables, do you support Paul's above statement? You earlier said "Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove? "

I asked for Scripture to support this and you have not responded.

Now I know that only ONCE in the Word does it say (Luke 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

If you preach that the Spirit often transformed Himself into a dove then I have no problems telling you that the God of Heaven, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Father of the only begotten Son Jesus Christ did not in any way anoint you. The reason being there is absolutely NO Scripture to support such and you cheapen the Spirit by suggesting such.

[paul]

Satan was manifest in the form of a seprent, and used to tempt Eve in the garden and also to temp Christ. The precedent was set in scripture even though it happened twice in this manner.

I suppose Paul is on the mission field so I ask someone to back up his statement with Scripture. Where in the WORD of God does it say that Satan in the form of a serpent tempted Christ? I'm asking for Scripture and not a line or scene from a movie based on someone's interpretation of the Scriptures.

Pastor Ables, do you support Paul's above statement? You earlier said "Have you forgotten the Holy Spirit often transformed into a dove? "


I asked for Scripture to support this and you have not responded.

Now I know that only ONCE in the Word does it say (Luke 3:22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

If you preach that the Spirit often transformed Himself into a dove then I have no problems telling you that the God of Heaven, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Father of the only begotten Son Jesus Christ did not in any way anoint you. The reason being there is absolutely NO Scripture to support such and you cheapen the Spirit by suggesting such.

FQ, I will give you your due. In the account of Luke the serpent is not mentioned by name. But let me draw a summation:

In the garden we know that the scriptures shows a serpent tempting
eve. Twisting the word that God had given to Adam, (Shall vs: Shal Not die) Offering immortality, knowledge and the fact that she could eat from this tree also giving more food, and could be like unto God.

In the Deasert, satans atemp is the same. He temps Christ with food, surely you are hungry, command the stones to be bread. I can give you power ( kingdom's of this world ). Again Satan offers Christ an alternative by twisting the Word of God.

Adam and Eve failed and sent mankind into a nightmare, I need not elaborate. Christ now preparing for his ministry which would lead him to the cross and death. Couold Satan once again divert God's intended plan? He hoped so. But alas he could not, Christ prevailed.

Note vs 10 of matt 4 .The reference is the tempter
vs 11 Jesus tells Satan to get behind him
vs 13 he is refered to as Satan

Thus the reason I used the term Serpent. many would say that the temptation of Christ in the deasert is a replay of the temptation in the garden. So not out of order to think that it was a serpent. Note the following commentary by Matthew Henery

Mat 4:1-11 Matthew Henery Com.
We have here the story of a famous duel, fought hand to hand, between Michael and the dragon, the Seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent, nay, the serpent himself; in which the seed of the woman suffers, being tempted, and so has his heel bruised; but the serpent is quite baffled in his temptations, and so has his head broken; and our Lord Jesus comes off a Conqueror, and so secures not only comfort, but conquest at last, to all his faithful followers

As far as your last staement concerning PA which and his anointing and calling. You are totally out of line. You might at least have the ministerial ethics to state that in your oponion you feel he is not annointed, but you have no place, no right to make the blanket statement and pass judgement.

Did you not come out of that judgemental past ? Then as Paul said to the Galatians why in God's name do you want to return to it ?

[Full Quiver]

Nevertheless the Word does not say Christ was tempted by a serpent and to add such is dangerous, in my opinion.

[paul]

Nevertheless the Word does not say Christ was tempted by a serpent and to add such is dangerous, in my opinion.

received.