I know that most Jude2ers have seen this and many of us were there in 1990--I don't guess we will ever see the selection process quite like this again. It's funny that many of the men (overseers) that voted for Billy Murray to be the GO would later leave because of some of the decisions he made. Here's the video in case you want to see it again as we prepare for the upcoming International Assembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tt5xJH93as
1990 General Overseer Selection
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1990 General Overseer Selection
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PastorP
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Re: 1990 General Overseer Selection
free wrote: It's funny that many of the men (overseers) that voted for Billy Murray to be the GO would later leave because of some of the decisions he made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tt5xJH93as
What number do you use to define many? I was present for all the Assemblies from Bishop Murray's selection until he retired. It took great courage to follow God's direction for the COGOP. I pray for that same direction to be upon all who follow.
PastorP
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
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Phil Hoover
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Bishop Billy D Murray
Wonderful preacher, wonderful pastor, wonderful leader, and a great person...
God's man for the hour.
I came home (on military leave) for the 1990 General Assembly...I was stationed in South Korea, and wanted to see "history taking place." I sat with my friend Tim Bagwell in the Tabernacle, and shed great tears of joy as I witnessed the Holy Ghost sweeping around the building...
It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me....I'll never forget it.
God's man for the hour.
I came home (on military leave) for the 1990 General Assembly...I was stationed in South Korea, and wanted to see "history taking place." I sat with my friend Tim Bagwell in the Tabernacle, and shed great tears of joy as I witnessed the Holy Ghost sweeping around the building...
It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me....I'll never forget it.
There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
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PastorP
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Re: Bishop Billy D Murray
Phil Hoover wrote:Wonderful preacher, wonderful pastor, wonderful leader, and a great person...
God's man for the hour.
It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience for me....I'll never forget it.
I believe the upcoming International will be as monumental as the 1990 Assembly. From all indications of reservations made, it is most likely to be the best attended Assembly in many years!
Hope to see you there!
PastorP
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
-
Phil Hoover
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While I won't be in Orlando
I will watch online as much as possible.
There is a ROCK between me and a hard place. His name is JESUS.
With all due respect, and no offense intended ...
It appears to me that the manifestation of tongues and the interpretation of tongues during this selection were not in compliance with the biblical mandate that it be at most two or three and that by course, and then for one to interpret.
Furthermore, the content of the interpretations showed an obvious bias and outcome as essentially forgone, effectively bypassing the function of the assembly by playing the "God has spoken" trump card as it were.
Certainly God can speak and decide anything He wants. I don't deny that. Please understand.
It's just that I personally witnessed several occurrences of this same sort of a word from the Lord during controversial issues in TCOG -- a word that served to preclude and forgo the honest voice and deliberation of the delegates (as was their understood responsibility), effectively calling for their submission to the "message" as a definitive and authoritative direction from the Lord. This was especially so during the time that James Nabors was essentially running things behind the scenes.
Again, God can do that. And we should submit when he does. But how does (or did) the assembly determine that? How does the assembly rightly affirm such a word? And what if there are those who do not agree with that word, or it's validity? Who dares to question such for fear of being seen as non-submissive, self-willed, and non-spiritual after a message or three like that!
I did once (but in TCOG) and it nearly cost me everything at the time, It also gained me the speculation, and accusation, of possibly blaspheming the Holy Ghost for questioning the validity of an M&I. I kid you not.
Please don't be upset with me for making these observations and asking these questions. My questions are sincere, though undoubtedly they will seem offensive. They are not intended to be so.
In fact, I have come to agree with nearly every issue Billy Murray led COGOP during change on, and then some! I think much of the direction COGOP has gone is biblically sound (not that I'm the authority). And that is despite (and to the disappointment of many from) my own TCOG upbringing and bias.
That being said ...
I wish I could be their in Orlando this year myself. Not only would I love to see all of you guys. I would love to be there for the BDP report, I would like to see who is chosen (and how) as the new GO, and hear Mark Williams address to you all, and I would like to visit the COG assembly as well. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of the fact that both denominations are meeting in their respective assemblies at essentially the same time, in the same city. It's at least a neat coincidence, if no providence is involved.
Hope you guys have a wonderful, God glorifying, Christ honoring, Spirit filled, word proclaiming, edifying time.
Blessings to all, in Him.
It appears to me that the manifestation of tongues and the interpretation of tongues during this selection were not in compliance with the biblical mandate that it be at most two or three and that by course, and then for one to interpret.
Furthermore, the content of the interpretations showed an obvious bias and outcome as essentially forgone, effectively bypassing the function of the assembly by playing the "God has spoken" trump card as it were.
Certainly God can speak and decide anything He wants. I don't deny that. Please understand.
It's just that I personally witnessed several occurrences of this same sort of a word from the Lord during controversial issues in TCOG -- a word that served to preclude and forgo the honest voice and deliberation of the delegates (as was their understood responsibility), effectively calling for their submission to the "message" as a definitive and authoritative direction from the Lord. This was especially so during the time that James Nabors was essentially running things behind the scenes.
Again, God can do that. And we should submit when he does. But how does (or did) the assembly determine that? How does the assembly rightly affirm such a word? And what if there are those who do not agree with that word, or it's validity? Who dares to question such for fear of being seen as non-submissive, self-willed, and non-spiritual after a message or three like that!
I did once (but in TCOG) and it nearly cost me everything at the time, It also gained me the speculation, and accusation, of possibly blaspheming the Holy Ghost for questioning the validity of an M&I. I kid you not.
Please don't be upset with me for making these observations and asking these questions. My questions are sincere, though undoubtedly they will seem offensive. They are not intended to be so.
In fact, I have come to agree with nearly every issue Billy Murray led COGOP during change on, and then some! I think much of the direction COGOP has gone is biblically sound (not that I'm the authority). And that is despite (and to the disappointment of many from) my own TCOG upbringing and bias.
That being said ...
I wish I could be their in Orlando this year myself. Not only would I love to see all of you guys. I would love to be there for the BDP report, I would like to see who is chosen (and how) as the new GO, and hear Mark Williams address to you all, and I would like to visit the COG assembly as well. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of the fact that both denominations are meeting in their respective assemblies at essentially the same time, in the same city. It's at least a neat coincidence, if no providence is involved.
Hope you guys have a wonderful, God glorifying, Christ honoring, Spirit filled, word proclaiming, edifying time.
Blessings to all, in Him.
Poimen
Bro. Christopher
"I wish a buck was still silver, it was back when the country was strong." -- The Hag
Bro. Christopher
"I wish a buck was still silver, it was back when the country was strong." -- The Hag
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Mat
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I plan to attend both ...
Poimen said,
That being said ...
"I wish I could be their in Orlando this year myself. Not only would I love to see all of you guys. I would love to be there for the BDP report, I would like to see who is chosen (and how) as the new GO, and hear Mark Williams address to you all, and I would like to visit the COG assembly as well. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of the fact that both denominations are meeting in their respective assemblies at essentially the same time, in the same city. It's at least a neat coincidence, if no providence is involved. Wink
Hope you guys have a wonderful, God glorifying, Christ honoring, Spirit filled, word proclaiming, edifying time.
Blessings to all, in Him."
I plan to attend both assemblies. I am going in a day early (Lord willing) and I hope to observe their business and see their exhibit area. Also, I want to connect with some friends. Due to timing this will be my first COG Assembly, however over the years I have been blessed to attend the AG General Conference (twice) which is something to behold. I attended PH Conferences, along with smaller Pentecostal and non Pentecostal denominational meetings over the years. There is always something to learn, connections to be made and relationships to be built.
Will the COG and COGOP ever reunite is the oft asked question? My conclusion is it will not happen by man's efforts. Our top guys and their top guys will not get together, to much to lose at the top. Often the "joint meetings" by top leaders amount to very little in real unity. On the local level its great to have fellowship with all types of churches, but a pastor must put the well being of his local church before any other in the city, and general leaders of a denomination must do what's best for the denomination. I believe that the greatest local churches and the best denominations strive to fulfill their calling and commit to their identity (or roll) as a body regardless of what is easy or what others our doing.
What would be an earth shaking Assembly for the COGOP? Perhaps to deal with the "elephant" (s) in the room. My list would include:
1 Name Change - lose the "of Prophecy" (Even the "Church of God" part as well)
2 Move the International Offices out of Cleveland, TN to a metro area (or out of the country if needs be)
3 Develop strong Regional Offices in the region the GPs are to cover. Why not have a North American Youth Director, Regional Assembly and vision. The other regions could do the say.
4 If we are committed to "plurality" of leadership based on the current General Presbyter system, than at the heart of this is the GP for each region should live in and be supported by their region (was this not original intent?). How can they represent their region when they live in a small town in US?
5 Direct elections and true rotation to the field (term limits) of leaders. We have adopted many of the titles and policies of COG (Administrative Bishop, etc), perhaps we should consider how their leaders got to their position. Also, if a region has elected a GP from among themselves, why should the GO, or other GPs, over-ride the choose. True globalization of the church would include the "liberty" to call leadership.
I think these issues would be trans-formative for the COGOP. In many ways, judging by the length of Assembly reports, we still have the mindset that if we can state our teaching just right, that will cause growth in the organization. I would venture to say, when less was defined by the decree of the committees/Assemblies the movement had more explosive growth. If we are not careful we will become weighted down with studies, reports, polices and papers, not to mention reviews and discernment statements, high level meetings and complex systems, and perhaps worst of all time spent looking for that perfect ministry title (Just call me Apostle and mail in your checks). If we do not rethink this behavior, which is both costly and time consuming for leadership, we will soon be carrying the weight of the system instead of the message of the Gospel.
Looking forward to the Assemblies in Orlando!
Mat
That being said ...
"I wish I could be their in Orlando this year myself. Not only would I love to see all of you guys. I would love to be there for the BDP report, I would like to see who is chosen (and how) as the new GO, and hear Mark Williams address to you all, and I would like to visit the COG assembly as well. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, comes of the fact that both denominations are meeting in their respective assemblies at essentially the same time, in the same city. It's at least a neat coincidence, if no providence is involved. Wink
Hope you guys have a wonderful, God glorifying, Christ honoring, Spirit filled, word proclaiming, edifying time.
Blessings to all, in Him."
I plan to attend both assemblies. I am going in a day early (Lord willing) and I hope to observe their business and see their exhibit area. Also, I want to connect with some friends. Due to timing this will be my first COG Assembly, however over the years I have been blessed to attend the AG General Conference (twice) which is something to behold. I attended PH Conferences, along with smaller Pentecostal and non Pentecostal denominational meetings over the years. There is always something to learn, connections to be made and relationships to be built.
Will the COG and COGOP ever reunite is the oft asked question? My conclusion is it will not happen by man's efforts. Our top guys and their top guys will not get together, to much to lose at the top. Often the "joint meetings" by top leaders amount to very little in real unity. On the local level its great to have fellowship with all types of churches, but a pastor must put the well being of his local church before any other in the city, and general leaders of a denomination must do what's best for the denomination. I believe that the greatest local churches and the best denominations strive to fulfill their calling and commit to their identity (or roll) as a body regardless of what is easy or what others our doing.
What would be an earth shaking Assembly for the COGOP? Perhaps to deal with the "elephant" (s) in the room. My list would include:
1 Name Change - lose the "of Prophecy" (Even the "Church of God" part as well)
2 Move the International Offices out of Cleveland, TN to a metro area (or out of the country if needs be)
3 Develop strong Regional Offices in the region the GPs are to cover. Why not have a North American Youth Director, Regional Assembly and vision. The other regions could do the say.
4 If we are committed to "plurality" of leadership based on the current General Presbyter system, than at the heart of this is the GP for each region should live in and be supported by their region (was this not original intent?). How can they represent their region when they live in a small town in US?
5 Direct elections and true rotation to the field (term limits) of leaders. We have adopted many of the titles and policies of COG (Administrative Bishop, etc), perhaps we should consider how their leaders got to their position. Also, if a region has elected a GP from among themselves, why should the GO, or other GPs, over-ride the choose. True globalization of the church would include the "liberty" to call leadership.
I think these issues would be trans-formative for the COGOP. In many ways, judging by the length of Assembly reports, we still have the mindset that if we can state our teaching just right, that will cause growth in the organization. I would venture to say, when less was defined by the decree of the committees/Assemblies the movement had more explosive growth. If we are not careful we will become weighted down with studies, reports, polices and papers, not to mention reviews and discernment statements, high level meetings and complex systems, and perhaps worst of all time spent looking for that perfect ministry title (Just call me Apostle and mail in your checks). If we do not rethink this behavior, which is both costly and time consuming for leadership, we will soon be carrying the weight of the system instead of the message of the Gospel.
Looking forward to the Assemblies in Orlando!
Mat
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PastorP
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Re: I plan to attend both ...
Mat wrote:
Looking forward to the Assemblies in Orlando!
Mat
Hope to see you there, I am as anxious as everyone else to see it begin, experience a move of the Spirit and then be able to come home and experience growth in the local church.
BTW, are you still in Arizona? LOL
PastorP
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
-
Mat
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No, tried to ...
No, tried to change the flag, but the system would not let me. Maybe I need an "all nations flag".
Mat
Mat
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Daniel
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Mat: From AZ to ...
Mat wrote:No, tried to change the flag, but the system would not let me. Maybe I need an "all nations flag".
Mat
I took the liberty to change your flag based on the IP address of your latest post. If this is not correct, please let us know.
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PastorP
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Re: Mat: From AZ to ...
Daniel wrote:Mat wrote:No, tried to change the flag, but the system would not let me. Maybe I need an "all nations flag".
Mat
I took the liberty to change your flag based on the IP address of your latest post. If this is not correct, please let us know.
Now everyone will know that Mat is closer to heaven!
PastorP
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
Proverbs 3:6 (MSG) Listen for GOD's voice in everything you do, everywhere you go; he's the one who will keep you on track.
-
Mat
- Ranking in the posts...
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Re: Mat: From AZ to ...
Daniel wrote:Mat wrote:No, tried to change the flag, but the system would not let me. Maybe I need an "all nations flag".
Mat
I took the liberty to change your flag based on the IP address of your latest post. If this is not correct, please let us know.
Thank you, that is correct. That's what I get for not posting for a long time, I forgot how it all works.
Mat
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