Conversation, opinions on

[dolfan]

The other day, I shared here how my sister in law's brother had committed suicide last Friday; his funeral was Monday.

I also shared that my brother and sister in law are separated and, as far as I am aware at the moment, they have signed a divorce agreement. My brother left her and he is involved with a very younger woman, and I'll leave it right there.

A couple of months ago, when my brother first moved out, I told him that he needed to take stock of his eternity and get right with the Lord while he is assessing all of these other things about "being happy". We had a polite and short conversation about his need for the Lord.

He has rocked along as if "happier than I've ever been", to quote him. I ain't buying that, but I suppose given what's going on with him, there is a certain flesh gratification that would make him feel that way.

Fast forward to Monday at the funeral. I wasn't sure my brother would be there or not, but he was. In fact, he came to be with his estranged wife and his daughter and to show his love for my sister in law's family. He had been at the church where the funeral was and had gone to do something for work, and by the time he got to the church, seating was at capacity and he stood in the rear of the church in the sound booth with the funeral director (whom we all know very well).

The preacher -- this is a Missionary Baptist church -- preached as honest yet delicate message as I think I've ever seen. But, he also essentially preached this man "into heaven", so to speak, by hammering away on the eternal security idea and insisting that, although the deceased was very depressed for an extended period, that as recently as two weeks earlier, he had assured the preacher, "I may have lost all hope, but I haven't lost faith in Christ". So, the pastor there very soothingly applied that as a balm.

Now, let me say straight up -- I am not arguing with the point here. But, the point was fodder enough in my brother's mind to call me about an hour and a half later to ask me what I thought about it.

"It just don't make sense. What he did upset the whole balance of nature. This was a guy who was in church for a long time. And, I believe he believed what he said he believed. But, he took God's plan for his life and he took control of it from God. That can't be right."

I said, "Well, I would tend to agree. I don't know that I'd say it quite the way you put it. You can't take God's plan and take control of it. We can't thwart Him, and He knows the end of everything from the beginning. This was not a development in His eyes and it didn't catch Him by surprise. But, what he did do was take the control of his own life as if he were the lord of himself instead of living that life under the Lordship of Jesus. You can be sure that God did not want him to commit suicide."

"Okay, well let me ask you this. What's any different about him committing suicide than somebody who lives a good Christian life for a long time and gets killed unexpectedly in a car wreck?"

I said, "I understand the question. That's a natural way to view it. But, Paul discouraged Christians from comparing themselves to one another. So, the standard is not what God is going to do with this couple in a wreck. The standard is God's perfection and holiness. That's what each of us is judged by. When you compare yourself to Him, where do you find yourself? And, the answer to that is sin. The only remedy is to walk away from sin, to trust Christ and His death on the cross as the sufficient payment for your sins and to obey Him."

"But, the last thing he did was to kill himself. How can he get forgiveness for that?"

I said, "Well, let me say it this way. He who endures to the end shall be saved is what the bible teaches. There are those who will do everything that looks on the outside to be Christian and then they will leave the faith. That happens. It happened in the Bible. Paul described people that did that as people who were not of us, and if they had been of us, they would've stayed faithful. I'm not telling you that M was or was not. He's gone now, so it is not for me to say. But, I can tell you that you and I will be judged by the Word of God."

NOTE: I know John said that, not Paul. So, I misspoke.


That was an opportunity and a hard conversation at the same time. I would like your views on it. Because, if it comes up again, and it might, I'd like to hear from this group in particular because I trust you. In your own view, do you think I was in the ballpark of being right. Because, I'll confess, when it comes to suicide and depression and minds being all ---- ill and sick from whatever ---- I'm a mercy guy. So, saying that was hard for me in a way. I'd rather, in my own preferences, believe that the preacher at the funeral was right.

Thoughts.

[Poimen]

I think for the purposes of reaching your brother you did "right". I think in follow up you might mention that sometimes sickness can cause us to do things we wouldn't do in our right minds, and that sickness (though horrible) is not a sin.

If that admission in follow up seems to give him leverage to excuse himself then you might say something like, "but you and I don't have the excuse of mental illness when we willingly or deliberately take back the Lordship of our lives from Jesus, and live contrary to His will, do we?"

Praying that God will give you fitly spoken words for your brother.

[Pastor Bill]

I agree, you pointed out the most important things.

1. We shouldn't take control away from God (which is a point it sounds like your brother needs to consider himself), and it was laid out obvious to your brother through this incident.

2. We can't say this man's eternity, we can trust his earlier testimony, we can look at his sins, but it's only God's place to really make that judgement. We do know, as you said suicide is not God's will, and not an open option, but no one can know the state of the man's mind or heart but God.

[Paully_44]

when it comes to suicide and depression and minds being all ---- ill and sick from whatever ---- I'm a mercy guy.

same here.

[Full Quiver]

I always say it takes a sick person to gloat about someone going to hell. Obviously hell is enlarged everyday as unbelievers find themselves there as they die but what glory is there in us pointing that out?

Did the Apostles write about how Judas split hell wide open? There is actually very little mention of Judas and the mention is of what he did and how he died. I don't find the Apostles and NT writers using Judas' struggle, and death as a powerpoint to teach against suicide or on eternal damnation.

The lesson in this suicide is that God is a loving God, a merciful God, but a just God and His Word is sure. He is full of grace & forgiveness, He knows the intents of a man's heart (we don't regardless if we think we have discernment), and He is the righteous judge. I choose not to play God nor would I ever call His hand.