Timing seems to be everything

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dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » May 10th, 2013, 3:50 pm

It's time to turn that on its ear.

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scooter
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Too late

Postby scooter » May 10th, 2013, 3:57 pm

dawgs10 wrote:It's time to turn that on its ear.


Response: I started pastoring 20 years ago in my twenties.

DO in my 30's. State work 30's and 40's.

10 years or so ago we had multiple SOs in their 40s.

:?:
What we need here is a good revival! lol

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pastorables
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Postby pastorables » May 10th, 2013, 8:24 pm

Wow. I'll just say Wow.

This discussion intrigues me, and I actually find the irony of it all a little comical in a good-natured way.

I have been in ministry since I was 18, started working on the state level in my early 20's, made it to one of the larger churches and D.O. by early 30's (also working on the state staff during 30's). I have pastored large churches and small churches, easy churches and challenging churches, churches with lack and churches with abundance, etc...

I've pastored for around 17 or 18 years, not including a time of sabbatical which likely would have added another 3 to 4 years to my pastoral total.

I am in my mid 40's now. We have been at our current pastorate for over 4 years. I am no longer a D.O. or working on state staff, and really don't desire to be at this season of ministry. Though not "jiffy-pop" growth, our church is methodically increasing in size, finances, and desire for revival.

We are in a state where the largest church in the top 10 runs just around 100 plus or minus. After the top four churches, the numbers decline to churches that run in the upper 30's and 40's. Our own church has just recently cracked the top 10 and I hope we can become a church that raises the attendance bar to new goals beyond even 100 one day. We are working on it as we've witnessed mid-40's for a few weeks consecutive now.

I feel that I've gained wisdom with every stop along the way, and feel more settled spiritually than ever before.

Now having said all of this, Joshua didn't start leading the children of Israel until around 80. I realize that was a different context, but the principle still applies. I don't feel that my leadership ability is based upon my age, or even necessarily education, but rather my experience with God and with people. I've had to grow in and grow up that the church might grow out.

Well, I hope I haven't rambled and please pray for me. I am scheduled to have surgery next week which will certainly set me back for a few. Nevertheless, God is faithful!
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose."Jim Elliot - Missionary Martyr

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dolfan
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Postby dolfan » May 11th, 2013, 6:15 am

PA, my prayers for your surgery and all that is connected to it, buddy. Will be praying.

Dawgs, I am asking this not to pick on you. You really mean what you say and I appreciate it. But, I am still unclear on what you say. You said that the church system ought to be more business like. Well, I am not sure if it should be or not because I really do not know exactly what about the church needs to be more like a business and less sure about how anyone really biblically makes the church like a business corporation. But, even more to the point, IF you are right and there needs to be more business leadership, I don't know of any business that simply says "We need to be younger" and then BECOMES younger by putting younger people into roles they are not prepared to assume.

So, I am thinking that you have in mind a specific manner to prepare these younger leaders to be early on their call and life. Now, that would be something to hang a hat on. So far, though, you have offered generalities as solutions. Every solution creates new problems. Wisdom is needed. You must gain experience, true. But, isn't a partnership and development of leaders more along the lines of what Pastor Gary and Paul have described -- and modeled -- the more sensical way?
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).

dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » May 11th, 2013, 9:19 am

You are assuming people are not ready for leadership because they are young.

dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » May 11th, 2013, 9:30 am

My years of management experience proves to me that young people can be great leaders.

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TW
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Postby TW » May 11th, 2013, 11:51 am

dawgs10 wrote:You are assuming people are not ready for leadership because they are young.


No one has made that assumption.

dawgs10 wrote:My years of management experience proves to me that young people can be great leaders.


You have indicated that you are a manager. So please tell us what is the largest group (in the Church or in the Corporate World) that you have managed?


TW
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paul
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Postby paul » May 11th, 2013, 1:10 pm

TW wrote:
dawgs10 wrote:You are assuming people are not ready for leadership because they are young.
TW


dawgs10, If I read your post you are indicating that the older men in office should be willing to step down and make room for the younger. WHY? The one thing I see missing in your dialoge is BUILDING CHURCHES. I don't mean the physical buildings. As a young man all I wanted was someone to teach me how to build and then get out of my way.

I have spent over 42 years in full time ministry. Worked hard, my wife and I have made sacrifices that I see very few yooung men willing to make today to fulfill the call of God on our lives.

I know there will be a time when I physically will have to curtail my traveling and other areas of ministry. But that will be between God and myself. In each country that we are established in we have purposfully choosen men in their early thirtys as our national directors we have been working, mentoring, and developing them. They are fine young men and have great potential. The more they develop the more we release fuller responsibility to them.

I am still of the persuastion that if any organizatin will develope young men and women for ministry, give them opportunity to grow and challenge them to be builders of the kingdom, they will take their place in leadership.
You cannot effectively love and minister to others when you are obsessed with protecting
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dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » May 11th, 2013, 3:48 pm

I have managed up to 25 under one roof. I am an area director at the moment covering a county. I am also an associate. Pastor of a church around 200.


TW wrote:
dawgs10 wrote:You are assuming people are not ready for leadership because they are young.


No one has made that assumption.

dawgs10 wrote:My years of management experience proves to me that young people can be great leaders.


You have indicated that you are a manager. So please tell us what is the largest group (in the Church or in the Corporate World) that you have managed?


TW

dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » May 11th, 2013, 3:52 pm

I truly believe in mentorship. I also know much can be learned from one generation to the other. That's not the point. The point is train, equip, and release. Allowing for those with strong leadership qualities to lead now. Not later.


paul wrote:
TW wrote:
dawgs10 wrote:You are assuming people are not ready for leadership because they are young.
TW


dawgs10, If I read your post you are indicating that the older men in office should be willing to step down and make room for the younger. WHY? The one thing I see missing in your dialoge is BUILDING CHURCHES. I don't mean the physical buildings. As a young man all I wanted was someone to teach me how to build and then get out of my way.

I have spent over 42 years in full time ministry. Worked hard, my wife and I have made sacrifices that I see very few yooung men willing to make today to fulfill the call of God on our lives.

I know there will be a time when I physically will have to curtail my traveling and other areas of ministry. But that will be between God and myself. In each country that we are established in we have purposfully choosen men in their early thirtys as our national directors we have been working, mentoring, and developing them. They are fine young men and have great potential. The more they develop the more we release fuller responsibility to them.

I am still of the persuastion that if any organizatin will develope young men and women for ministry, give them opportunity to grow and challenge them to be builders of the kingdom, they will take their place in leadership.


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