tithing

[Full Quiver]

allow me to preface this with the fact that I believe in giving and love to give for it really is better to give than to receive. However, having lived under a mandate to tithe I discovered that truth tithing as Abraham practiced, once per Scripture, was from the heart and not by legal persuasion.

Since learning what grace is and the fact that no matter how good I am, perceive to be, am perceived to be, or that someone says I am salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned. In this journey I discovered that the only rules NT believers are to live by is the 2 greatest commandments ie. to love God with you whole being and to love everyone else as yourself. The law was done away with on the cross and that included the Jewish diet, the priestly dress code, and tithing.

Still though preachers revert to Malachi and try and scare folks into tithing by reading about the curse. The NT says Jesus became the curse for us. HELLO!

The Jews were required to tithe and the priesthood was required to use that tithe to take care of the ministers. Most churches don't pay the ministers with the tithes so that alone is a problem.

I understand that the ministry needs to be funded but the power is in the WORD and the WORD teaches giving from a cheerful heart. The one time Jesus was recorded speaking on tithes he was speaking to Jews. He praised them for their legalistic ways by tithing on herbs. People use this verse to justify Christian tithing yet these people receive gifts, coupons, free stuff, grow gardens, etc. and NEVER give 10% of that increase. The apostle Paul never mentioned tithing UNLESS you say he wrote Hebrews and there again he was writing to Jews.

I'll say more later.

[dolfan]

I can boil my understanding down pretty simply:

Tithing is not a NT requirement for believers.

Love is a NT requirement for believers. Giving all, and doing it with love, is a NT requirement for believers. Holding nothing back is a NT requirement for believers. Looking after the needs of others first before your own is a NT requirement for believers. The NT pattern first demonstrated in the early church was not giving 10%, but 100% and having everything as common resource. I'm convinced that this is the way that people in present NT Christianity in "third world" countries generally live --- but I concede I could be wrong about that and would appreciate a corrected POV on that from someone in the know. I'm still forming my thoughts on all of this stuff myself.

For now, though, out of a genuine sense of obedience and a belief that God does love a cheerful giver, we generally tithe. What we don't do is get down to cents on it. If we exceed 10% and personally consider it a tithe, that's fine, and if we round off short of 10% in an oversight somewhere we don't panic as if we've broken a rule. We try to be faithful to it. And, God is, of course, faithful to Himself and takes care of us. It isn't quid pro quo; it is just the goodness of God. It is all His; I do wish we (our family and all believers) lived more like we believed that in fact.

[beckrl]

In short the tithe (10th) this our first fruits unto God, as the priest would have the first (10th) of the harvest and offer it to the Lord God.

Tithe in itself is an teacher of good works, as much a the early church saw for the needs of their brothers in Christ.

So when it comes down to it our tithe is to help the poor and needed, Now it goes into the store house of God, were they should be a service to the poor. It would be much the same as if one had an harvest of wheat the first row would be for the poor. This is what it should teach us.

Now is it a requirement in the NT? No, but again our works will be tried by fire.

[scooter]

allow me to preface this with the fact that I believe in giving and love to give for it really is better to give than to receive. However, having lived under a mandate to tithe I discovered that truth tithing as Abraham practiced, once per Scripture, was from the heart and not by legal persuasion.

Since learning what grace is and the fact that no matter how good I am, perceive to be, am perceived to be, or that someone says I am salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned. In this journey I discovered that the only rules NT believers are to live by is the 2 greatest commandments ie. to love God with you whole being and to love everyone else as yourself. The law was done away with on the cross and that included the Jewish diet, the priestly dress code, and tithing.

Still though preachers revert to Malachi and try and scare folks into tithing by reading about the curse. The NT says Jesus became the curse for us. HELLO!

The Jews were required to tithe and the priesthood was required to use that tithe to take care of the ministers. Most churches don't pay the ministers with the tithes so that alone is a problem.

I understand that the ministry needs to be funded but the power is in the WORD and the WORD teaches giving from a cheerful heart. The one time Jesus was recorded speaking on tithes he was speaking to Jews. He praised them for their legalistic ways by tithing on herbs. People use this verse to justify Christian tithing yet these people receive gifts, coupons, free stuff, grow gardens, etc. and NEVER give 10% of that increase. The apostle Paul never mentioned tithing UNLESS you say he wrote Hebrews and there again he was writing to Jews.

I'll say more later.

Response: I don't think it's really that simple. There are many parts of the "Law" that were in no way shape or form abolished. You mentioned the two that Jesus taught as the greatest. The Ten Commandments are all based in those two principles, such as If we love God we would have no other God, etc. Likewise if we love people we would not bare false witness, etc.

So in reality those parts of the "law" are very much still in effect and found within the law of Christ.

I however do not approach tithing in the same manner. You reduce the principle to a once upon a time thing that Abraham did and then simple support of the priesthood.

Actually the same principle is found in the man Israel (Jacob) also as a systematic way of honoring God. This is also clarified in that this was pre-levitical as Levi had yet to be born.

Many people run to the care of the poor with the tithe but really that responsibility fell to the Levites under the Law and the tithe was their inheritance as they were given no land, but rather dispersed throughout the other tribes.

A good question would be when one tithes is it to God or man?

Adopting the Biblical principle of tithing as a systematic way of being faithful to God is based off a wonderful model.

As was mentioned before the NT example is far greater than 10%. As we have drifted from communal living, we have also drifted away from selling the things we have and all drawing from a common pot. Now we step further from honoring God by reducing the percentage below that of the OT.

Jesus a priest after the order of OT Mel, now is worth less in honor when it comes to our finances.

If a NT believer gives over 10% I have no problem with them talking smack about "tithing".

If they give less than that I think they are only fooling themselves.

[MacUser]

It isn't quid pro quo; it is just the goodness of God

This is the amazing truth that will set you FREE.

Remember real transformation comes by receiving Truth and not from Religious Experiences / Cultural washings expecting rewards.

[Ilovebigcats]

Jesus a priest after the order of OT Mel, now is worth less in honor when it comes to our finances.

Excellent

[dawgs10]

allow me to preface this with the fact that I believe in giving and love to give for it really is better to give than to receive. However, having lived under a mandate to tithe I discovered that truth tithing as Abraham practiced, once per Scripture, was from the heart and not by legal persuasion.

Since learning what grace is and the fact that no matter how good I am, perceive to be, am perceived to be, or that someone says I am salvation is a free gift and cannot be earned. In this journey I discovered that the only rules NT believers are to live by is the 2 greatest commandments ie. to love God with you whole being and to love everyone else as yourself. The law was done away with on the cross and that included the Jewish diet, the priestly dress code, and tithing.

Still though preachers revert to Malachi and try and scare folks into tithing by reading about the curse. The NT says Jesus became the curse for us. HELLO!

The Jews were required to tithe and the priesthood was required to use that tithe to take care of the ministers. Most churches don't pay the ministers with the tithes so that alone is a problem.

I understand that the ministry needs to be funded but the power is in the WORD and the WORD teaches giving from a cheerful heart. The one time Jesus was recorded speaking on tithes he was speaking to Jews. He praised them for their legalistic ways by tithing on herbs. People use this verse to justify Christian tithing yet these people receive gifts, coupons, free stuff, grow gardens, etc. and NEVER give 10% of that increase. The apostle Paul never mentioned tithing UNLESS you say he wrote Hebrews and there again he was writing to Jews.

I'll say more later.

the fact is when Jesus "praised" them for their legalistic ways by tithing on herbs he was placing his stamp of approval on tithing for now. he said to them what you are doing is good or right but you must do it with the right attitude. so yes Jesus said it was good or right. so its good or right. it is a new testament teaching.

[Full Quiver]

scooter, the 10 commandments and the law are different and separate. The 10 commandments are wrapped up in the 2 great commandments and must be followed. Tithing is not in the 10. In fact financial giving is no where in the 10.

Dawgs, when and where did Jesus sit the disciples down and tell them to tithe? Where did Paul, Peter, James, and John address tithing?

I have no problem with churches setting up a system of tithing. Where I attend, Cornerstone AoG, they have a tithing system much like most pentecostal churches. The difference I see is that they get the job done. The poor are fed, tended to, the gospel is preached around the world including hundreds of church buildings constructed in Kenya, wells dug in Muslim villages which has opened the area up to Cornerstone, 4-5 thousand members at the main campus, a second campus opened weeks ago which already is seeing over 400 in attendance, huge seasonal events opn to the public which gleans souls that would have never stepped foot in the church before, etc., etc., etc.

I do have a prob with this system though. we are told that a curse I upon those that do not tithe. I disagree! It is proven throughout society everyday. If we can eat shrimp and not be damned or cursed then not tithing is not cursed either. Do your wives separate themselves once a month till their cleansed? Have you ever touched a dead body at a funeral or hospital? Where you cursed? Jesus became the curse for us.

[dawgs10]

Jesus did not teach anything about a curse if you do not tithe. he did agree that if you do with the right intention it is good and right. so its good and right to tithe. if its a tithe "which Jesus approved of" then its a tenth of your income. that is what tithe is and thats what Jesus was speaking about. A strict tithe system with the right intention is good and right. its that simple. this is New Testament.

[scooter]

If you love God you won't rob Him.

[scooter]

7:8 And here * men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

When does/did Jesus recieve tithe?

Was Melchisedec Jesus?

Should he that liveth still recieve them if he once did?

Or Both?

[MacUser]

Gentlemen.
Here Goes. Read. Heb 7:18

You are either FREE from the Law of Moses ( that specifically targets Jews ) .. Dead to it as Paul states.. or you are not. Jesus didn't come so we could keep the Law better so you are not stealing from Jesus in this context. If tithing this is used to control, manipulate, generate fake rewards from God etc.. it's witchcraft.

You will give ALL to your Father as Christ did.. out of FAITH. ANYTHING not done in FAITH is dead works. Manipulated Religious obligation payments can literally pass as SINNING under the New Testament.

Sin: Falling short: hamartia, hamartema, hamartano. The central idea is to "miss the mark." If you are giving because of a Law or religious peer/control/obligation.. anything other than FAITH... you just missed it.


And.. If you desire to keep just a few "good" laws you must keep them ALL.

Galatians 3:10-13
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11. Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...

Jesus taught under the Law.. but after John 15:15.. He FREED the Jews and us from being a servant. If we believe on Him.. we are FREE.

Galatians 3:1-13
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Quickly... Today's Christian Church treats the Law as a borrowed offense because it never really applied to US. We "gentiles" received only CHRIST. We have serious covenant confusion and that is a trick of the enemy. I pray revelation on us all.

God Bless.

[dolfan]

I don't know about curses. I'm of a mind that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. I want to be and live in Him. We love God, we love His body, and the body blesses us and we want to -- out of love -- do the same. We want to share and be shared with. So, we pay a tithe. We offer it in love, we offer it obedience to our conscience which we believe is informed by the Holy Spirit, and we offer it with confidence that God does give increase not only to us but that He increases the gift to abound to His glory and to the good that He does through His body. He is good, and that's all there is to it. I want to be the good that He does in me and through me. That's why we do what we do, and Lord help us.

[MacUser]

I don't know about curses. I'm of a mind that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus

Absolutely.. in Christ. If you are keeping the Law you are not. Any part of it... you must keep it all. I didn't say it... Paul did.

Remember Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.



Beautiful Stuff Here:
So Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

[Pastor Bill]

As Christians we are not under the law, BUT the law taught many things that are good and right, I don't believe someone is going to hell for not paying tithes, but it is a good and right thing to do and God will bless those things, Just as he does in all things we do for Him.

While we are not under the law, it can be a good tool for guiding our actions. I'm not under my parents rules as an adult, but there are many things they taught me that I believe are right and still should guide my actions.